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	<title>Comments on: A $9 Minimum Wage?  No Way!</title>
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	<description>A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance.</description>
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		<title>By: hmmm</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-6136</link>
		<dc:creator>hmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 May 2006 20:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-6136</guid>
		<description>I may be a little late to jump into the discussion here, but I have two cents (maybe I&#039;d have more if the minimum wage were higher) to add.  It seems that part of the problem with minimum wage being stuck at $5.15 for YEARS is that, even with it stagnant, we&#039;ve still had inflation.  Yep, it seems that the effect you folks mentioned, that would be caused by an increase in the minimum wage, has occurred all on its own.  In fact, the entire economy, for good or bad, has continued to chug along on its merry way without increasing the wage that most workers earn.  So while things get more expensive, those workers are trying to afford a status quo with the same income.  It doesn&#039;t work.  But some people have been receiving raises; CEOs and upper echelon managers get their pockets lined when profits increase.  Granted, shareholders have the right to step in and limit the salaries of these people, however most workers aren&#039;t shareholders.  Where&#039;s the trickle down effect that used to occur when companies were smaller and the boss actually knew your name and cared whether or not you could afford to feed your family more than pop-tarts and white bread.  The reason that the minimum wage is instituted is because corporate accountability HAS to be regulated; they certainly won&#039;t self-regulate.  In this way, I agree with Dylan in that there should be some cap on wages.  I mean, athlete salaries are capped; why shouldn&#039;t other wages be?  How much money do people actually need for that whole &quot;stimulate the economy with my affluence?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be a little late to jump into the discussion here, but I have two cents (maybe I&#8217;d have more if the minimum wage were higher) to add.  It seems that part of the problem with minimum wage being stuck at $5.15 for YEARS is that, even with it stagnant, we&#8217;ve still had inflation.  Yep, it seems that the effect you folks mentioned, that would be caused by an increase in the minimum wage, has occurred all on its own.  In fact, the entire economy, for good or bad, has continued to chug along on its merry way without increasing the wage that most workers earn.  So while things get more expensive, those workers are trying to afford a status quo with the same income.  It doesn&#8217;t work.  But some people have been receiving raises; CEOs and upper echelon managers get their pockets lined when profits increase.  Granted, shareholders have the right to step in and limit the salaries of these people, however most workers aren&#8217;t shareholders.  Where&#8217;s the trickle down effect that used to occur when companies were smaller and the boss actually knew your name and cared whether or not you could afford to feed your family more than pop-tarts and white bread.  The reason that the minimum wage is instituted is because corporate accountability HAS to be regulated; they certainly won&#8217;t self-regulate.  In this way, I agree with Dylan in that there should be some cap on wages.  I mean, athlete salaries are capped; why shouldn&#8217;t other wages be?  How much money do people actually need for that whole &#8220;stimulate the economy with my affluence?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dylan</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-5788</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 May 2006 07:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-5788</guid>
		<description>You are right. People will always want more. That&#039;s why there should be a MAXIMUM wage law, stating that an individual can not make more than a certain amount, which would be a multiple of the minimum wage. This would keep all wages balanced in a continuum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right. People will always want more. That&#8217;s why there should be a MAXIMUM wage law, stating that an individual can not make more than a certain amount, which would be a multiple of the minimum wage. This would keep all wages balanced in a continuum.</p>
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		<title>By: Vladimir Stojanovski</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-5600</link>
		<dc:creator>Vladimir Stojanovski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 01:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-5600</guid>
		<description>Wow, Lelia Katherine Thomas is on fire! We American men aren&#039;t manly enough to change our oil? I thought YOU gals wanted us to be in touch with our faminine side! But I digress ... 

Let&#039;s shift focus to illegal aliens, since that&#039;s in the news a lot these days.  Yep, let&#039;s raise that min. wage to $9. What&#039;s gonna happen is the parking attendants will be fired because the parking company will hire Jose and Pedro (no offense to my Mexican friends here, just illustrating) for $4 or whatever the going rate may be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Lelia Katherine Thomas is on fire! We American men aren&#8217;t manly enough to change our oil? I thought YOU gals wanted us to be in touch with our faminine side! But I digress &#8230; </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s shift focus to illegal aliens, since that&#8217;s in the news a lot these days.  Yep, let&#8217;s raise that min. wage to $9. What&#8217;s gonna happen is the parking attendants will be fired because the parking company will hire Jose and Pedro (no offense to my Mexican friends here, just illustrating) for $4 or whatever the going rate may be.</p>
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		<title>By: jtc</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-5549</link>
		<dc:creator>jtc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 07:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-5549</guid>
		<description>Ultimately &quot;living&quot; or minimum wages are arbitrary constructs.  Once they are moved, the entire system eventually re-baselines to the new value and back to the same position since there are pressures to raise wages at all levels (just not at the same  time or same rate).  On the other side, people will argue that this lower end adjustment is a necessary response to cost of living increases.  Which one drives the other?  The real question is how fast your pay increases relative to the rate of cost of living increases.  As I see it, adjusting the minimum wage has a ripple effect which causes less predictability and unsettleness in the overall wage marketplace particularly for those in the middle.  It&#039;s natural not to like that feeling especially when it&#039;s only a temporary fix and the next one is just a few election cycles away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ultimately &#8220;living&#8221; or minimum wages are arbitrary constructs.  Once they are moved, the entire system eventually re-baselines to the new value and back to the same position since there are pressures to raise wages at all levels (just not at the same  time or same rate).  On the other side, people will argue that this lower end adjustment is a necessary response to cost of living increases.  Which one drives the other?  The real question is how fast your pay increases relative to the rate of cost of living increases.  As I see it, adjusting the minimum wage has a ripple effect which causes less predictability and unsettleness in the overall wage marketplace particularly for those in the middle.  It&#8217;s natural not to like that feeling especially when it&#8217;s only a temporary fix and the next one is just a few election cycles away.</p>
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		<title>By: Mighty Bargain Hunter &#187; Roundup for week of 22 May 2006</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-5548</link>
		<dc:creator>Mighty Bargain Hunter &#187; Roundup for week of 22 May 2006</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 06:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-5548</guid>
		<description>[...] All Financial Matters has a good discussion going about raising the minimum wage. (I tend to agree that it&#8217;s not the best idea.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] All Financial Matters has a good discussion going about raising the minimum wage. (I tend to agree that it&#8217;s not the best idea.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lelia Katherine Thomas</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-5544</link>
		<dc:creator>Lelia Katherine Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 02:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-5544</guid>
		<description>Okay, my gut reaction is to agree with you on this, but ultimately I can&#039;t in some ways.

&lt;i&gt;So, they get a “raise” and go buy a BRAND NEW car with it? What about getting an education or some sort of training so that they can better themselves? Something tells me that the minimum wage isn’t going to be enough for them. Therein lies the problem with the minimum wage: IT IS NEVER ENOUGH! We can raise it all we want, but people are always going to want more.&lt;/i&gt;

People will always want more because there&#039;s this thing called life, simply put. In life, you don&#039;t just have yourself usually, but your spouse and your child (likely children--plural). Put all of that together, and you&#039;re right--minimum wage, be it at $5.15 or $9.00, will never be enough.

Moreover, even if this particular couple is childless, you just imagine trying to balance similar lives and getting a new education. And might I mention that they &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; have to have a functioning (hopefully safe) car to get to and from work or even to and from a university. Used cars--or should I say good used cards--aren&#039;t always available when you need one, especially according to where you live.

Now add children to the whole equation. Young children will require daycare for this to be pulled off successfully. Children under 16 will only be at school until 3pm; any time after that would be extracurricular, in which case there are usually equipment costs. If you&#039;re living on minimum wage, you likely don&#039;t live in a good neighborhood, unless you&#039;re just lucky. You don&#039;t want your kids there without you. What do you do with them, while you&#039;re trying to balance bills, work and an education? Do you think you could do it all? Some families even have one or both parents working multiple jobs.

This doesn&#039;t even begin to account for single mothers. 

Yes, people of lower incomes need to be taught proper and better money management, but are you going to pay for it? Because, guess what, either society will be chipping in for more handout programs or it will be chipping in to teach people how to manage their money. And even then we all know that the latter would not necessarily have a high success rate, because good money management comes more of self-motivation. Otherwise, you wouldn&#039;t see upper middle class people filing for backruptcy, right? A person has to be interested in the responsibility to take it, so the success rate of such education would probably only be about 50 percent, if even that.

&lt;i&gt;Wages should be a factor of supply and demand, not a tool by politicians to get votes. As I have said before: jobs that require little or no skill and can be done by just about anybody do not deserve high wages.&lt;/i&gt;

While I agree with you in terms of politics here, you obviously have not thought about how important menial tasks are! Not all things can be done by machine; there are still many, many factory jobs out there that make your life better, whether you realize it or not. 

Without them, you likely wouldn&#039;t get as high quality products as you do (inspection by hand), your restaurant tables might be dirty (waiting tables), your plate at a restaurant might have caked food on it (dishwasher), and the list goes on for miles. Yes, these are tasks everyone can perform but tasks that most are not interested in performing or even acknowledging.

Also, define skill and your idea of supply and demand. There are people who work in mechanical situations that many of today&#039;s males could never survive in (considering how many males don&#039;t even know how to change the oil in their cars nowadays), and yet they may only get paid slightly above minimum wage (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/How_much_money_does_an_auto_mechanic_make&quot; title=&quot;Source&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;usually $8-10&lt;/a&gt;). They have skills many don&#039;t, and they&#039;re in demand, but they don&#039;t get paid as much. Is that paying someone according to skill, according to demand? And, of course, mechanical situations are not the only scenarios one can use for such an argument.

All this said, I think it would be good if people could get better jobs and have better pay, and not just because of what some politician may decide to do. However, not everyone gets to go to college (even in this day and age). Put bluntly, not everyone is smart/willing enough in high school to get scholarships, either. From those points, it&#039;s hard to move up in the world. 

I hate the handout society that I feel America has largely become, and yet there is no clear, 100 percent effective answer as to how we can remove ourselves from it. I agree that consistently raising the minimum wage isn&#039;t the way to go, but I also don&#039;t think people should be bordering starvation or chance being ruined upon their next case of the flu, simply because their pay is so low.

Answers are usually in a grey area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, my gut reaction is to agree with you on this, but ultimately I can&#8217;t in some ways.</p>
<p><i>So, they get a “raise” and go buy a BRAND NEW car with it? What about getting an education or some sort of training so that they can better themselves? Something tells me that the minimum wage isn’t going to be enough for them. Therein lies the problem with the minimum wage: IT IS NEVER ENOUGH! We can raise it all we want, but people are always going to want more.</i></p>
<p>People will always want more because there&#8217;s this thing called life, simply put. In life, you don&#8217;t just have yourself usually, but your spouse and your child (likely children&#8211;plural). Put all of that together, and you&#8217;re right&#8211;minimum wage, be it at $5.15 or $9.00, will never be enough.</p>
<p>Moreover, even if this particular couple is childless, you just imagine trying to balance similar lives and getting a new education. And might I mention that they <i>do</i> have to have a functioning (hopefully safe) car to get to and from work or even to and from a university. Used cars&#8211;or should I say good used cards&#8211;aren&#8217;t always available when you need one, especially according to where you live.</p>
<p>Now add children to the whole equation. Young children will require daycare for this to be pulled off successfully. Children under 16 will only be at school until 3pm; any time after that would be extracurricular, in which case there are usually equipment costs. If you&#8217;re living on minimum wage, you likely don&#8217;t live in a good neighborhood, unless you&#8217;re just lucky. You don&#8217;t want your kids there without you. What do you do with them, while you&#8217;re trying to balance bills, work and an education? Do you think you could do it all? Some families even have one or both parents working multiple jobs.</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t even begin to account for single mothers. </p>
<p>Yes, people of lower incomes need to be taught proper and better money management, but are you going to pay for it? Because, guess what, either society will be chipping in for more handout programs or it will be chipping in to teach people how to manage their money. And even then we all know that the latter would not necessarily have a high success rate, because good money management comes more of self-motivation. Otherwise, you wouldn&#8217;t see upper middle class people filing for backruptcy, right? A person has to be interested in the responsibility to take it, so the success rate of such education would probably only be about 50 percent, if even that.</p>
<p><i>Wages should be a factor of supply and demand, not a tool by politicians to get votes. As I have said before: jobs that require little or no skill and can be done by just about anybody do not deserve high wages.</i></p>
<p>While I agree with you in terms of politics here, you obviously have not thought about how important menial tasks are! Not all things can be done by machine; there are still many, many factory jobs out there that make your life better, whether you realize it or not. </p>
<p>Without them, you likely wouldn&#8217;t get as high quality products as you do (inspection by hand), your restaurant tables might be dirty (waiting tables), your plate at a restaurant might have caked food on it (dishwasher), and the list goes on for miles. Yes, these are tasks everyone can perform but tasks that most are not interested in performing or even acknowledging.</p>
<p>Also, define skill and your idea of supply and demand. There are people who work in mechanical situations that many of today&#8217;s males could never survive in (considering how many males don&#8217;t even know how to change the oil in their cars nowadays), and yet they may only get paid slightly above minimum wage (<a href="http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/How_much_money_does_an_auto_mechanic_make" title="Source" rel="nofollow">usually $8-10</a>). They have skills many don&#8217;t, and they&#8217;re in demand, but they don&#8217;t get paid as much. Is that paying someone according to skill, according to demand? And, of course, mechanical situations are not the only scenarios one can use for such an argument.</p>
<p>All this said, I think it would be good if people could get better jobs and have better pay, and not just because of what some politician may decide to do. However, not everyone gets to go to college (even in this day and age). Put bluntly, not everyone is smart/willing enough in high school to get scholarships, either. From those points, it&#8217;s hard to move up in the world. </p>
<p>I hate the handout society that I feel America has largely become, and yet there is no clear, 100 percent effective answer as to how we can remove ourselves from it. I agree that consistently raising the minimum wage isn&#8217;t the way to go, but I also don&#8217;t think people should be bordering starvation or chance being ruined upon their next case of the flu, simply because their pay is so low.</p>
<p>Answers are usually in a grey area.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-5539</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 21:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-5539</guid>
		<description>I bought my car used.  My income is higher than this couple&#039;s and I&#039;m sure my net worth is too.  Part of the reason is that my wife and I own our cars free and clear.  We aren&#039;t carrying a pile of debt around with us.  We&#039;re actually considering how soon we&#039;ll be able to pay off our mortgage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bought my car used.  My income is higher than this couple&#8217;s and I&#8217;m sure my net worth is too.  Part of the reason is that my wife and I own our cars free and clear.  We aren&#8217;t carrying a pile of debt around with us.  We&#8217;re actually considering how soon we&#8217;ll be able to pay off our mortgage.</p>
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		<title>By: Dus10</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-5508</link>
		<dc:creator>Dus10</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 12:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-5508</guid>
		<description>djb:

You seem to not notice that your article is discussing raising the minimum wage for government employees and contractors.  This would not be an increase in minimum wage for all jobs.  Which means that it does not have as large of an effect on the economy.  This is a like an employer deciding to pay all of its employees a certain amount more than the minimum wage... it is apples to oranges... and you cannot effectively argue what is good for applies is also good for oranges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>djb:</p>
<p>You seem to not notice that your article is discussing raising the minimum wage for government employees and contractors.  This would not be an increase in minimum wage for all jobs.  Which means that it does not have as large of an effect on the economy.  This is a like an employer deciding to pay all of its employees a certain amount more than the minimum wage&#8230; it is apples to oranges&#8230; and you cannot effectively argue what is good for applies is also good for oranges.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-5360</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 23:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-5360</guid>
		<description>Raising the minimum wage like that is merely a way for them to force their idealist socialistic &#039;theories&#039; upon the market to allow them to garner votes and feel better about themselves. Some people will always be carrier victims no matter how much you pay them. They will always hate people who are better off, and will never do anything to better themselves. Oh well, there&#039;s always robots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raising the minimum wage like that is merely a way for them to force their idealist socialistic &#8216;theories&#8217; upon the market to allow them to garner votes and feel better about themselves. Some people will always be carrier victims no matter how much you pay them. They will always hate people who are better off, and will never do anything to better themselves. Oh well, there&#8217;s always robots.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/comment-page-1/#comment-5357</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 21:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/05/24/a-9-minimum-wage-no-way/#comment-5357</guid>
		<description>&quot;Not to mention that we are all human beings living on this planet together and an increase in my well being has a direct correlation to and increase in your well being.&quot;

Then by all means send me a big check and increase my well being, and yours will go up too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Not to mention that we are all human beings living on this planet together and an increase in my well being has a direct correlation to and increase in your well being.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then by all means send me a big check and increase my well being, and yours will go up too!</p>
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