Comments on: Could This Be One of the Reasons GM is in the Toilet? http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/ A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:00:57 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Steve http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-111080 Steve Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:48:24 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-111080 If you don't know by now the automobile is the worst investment anyone can make, plain and simple. Chrysler,Dodge and Plymouth built a slant six 225 engine back in the days and they put it in everything from the Dodge Dart to the Diplomat!! The engine was unblowable!! It never needed to be fixed. You could literally drive it till the wheels fell off the car!! Well the inevitable happenned. They went BANKRUPT!! Car manufacturers could build a car that will outlast you. What or why would they want to do that? They wouldn't make money. They PREY on suckers like you and I, and they love it. They sleep well at night because of it. All the new cars are meant to break down. All those little parts under the hood are meant to break, most of them aren't even needed. Oh by the way I am a Master Mechanic retired for 15 years now. There is no such thing as a bad car manufacturer, it is the luck of the draw. Example: both my aunts bought the same exact car, it does not matter the name. One car was a piece and the other was great and never had a problem. I now own the good one!! The best way to buy a car is to know the person or you can do what I did. Don't buy a mint car that never had a problem before off of some little old lady from Pasadina and then drive it normally and expect it to hold together after the car never saw 40 miles an hour. Simple fact to all,if you purchase a new car you are taking a chance. I am not saying don't buy new but do your homework and ask a lot of questions. I do. Even when I get gas if I make eye contact with someone at the pump I will say how do you like your new Camry, have you had any problems with it so far and how many miles are on it? You will be surprised at some of the answers you get from people. Well good luck and I hope this helps. If you don’t know by now the automobile is the worst investment anyone can make, plain and simple. Chrysler,Dodge and Plymouth built a slant six 225 engine back in the days and they put it in everything from the Dodge Dart to the Diplomat!! The engine was unblowable!! It never needed to be fixed. You could literally drive it till the wheels fell off the car!! Well the inevitable happenned. They went BANKRUPT!! Car manufacturers could build a car that will outlast you. What or why would they want to do that? They wouldn’t make money. They PREY on suckers like you and I, and they love it. They sleep well at night because of it. All the new cars are meant to break down. All those little parts under the hood are meant to break, most of them aren’t even needed. Oh by the way I am a Master Mechanic retired for 15 years now. There is no such thing as a bad car manufacturer, it is the luck of the draw. Example: both my aunts bought the same exact car, it does not matter the name. One car was a piece and the other was great and never had a problem. I now own the good one!! The best way to buy a car is to know the person or you can do what I did. Don’t buy a mint car that never had a problem before off of some little old lady from Pasadina and then drive it normally and expect it to hold together after the car never saw 40 miles an hour. Simple fact to all,if you purchase a new car you are taking a chance. I am not saying don’t buy new but do your homework and ask a lot of questions. I do. Even when I get gas if I make eye contact with someone at the pump I will say how do you like your new Camry, have you had any problems with it so far and how many miles are on it? You will be surprised at some of the answers you get from people. Well good luck and I hope this helps.

]]> By: Jeff http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-18027 Jeff Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:39:41 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-18027 This begs the question: is it really worth it to actually own a car, considering the high cost of maintenance and repairs as a vehicle ages? I lease both my cars, and albeit always have a payment...yet, I never have to worry about a significant problem that isnt covered by warranty....oil, filters and that's it....also, I get the benefit of driving a car that employs the latest safety and technology standards.... To me, it's not about status, but practicality....I cant deal with car problems, no matter how small...having my car out of service (i'm in outside sales) I lose $... This begs the question: is it really worth it to actually own a car, considering the high cost of maintenance and repairs as a vehicle ages?

I lease both my cars, and albeit always have a payment…yet, I never have to worry about a significant problem that isnt covered by warranty….oil, filters and that’s it….also, I get the benefit of driving a car that employs the latest safety and technology standards….

To me, it’s not about status, but practicality….I cant deal with car problems, no matter how small…having my car out of service (i’m in outside sales) I lose $…

]]> By: Foobarista http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-16212 Foobarista Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:12:33 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-16212 Like in so many other areas, GM is suffering with "legacy issues". Most measured stats for quality show that most American and Japanese makers are actually extremely close nowadays, and are actually both better than European cars. But too many of us got burned by crap cars in the 80s or earlier and dropped American cars off the radar in favor of (usually) Toyota and/or Honda. "Give us a second chance" is a really awful marketing slogan, and since cars are the second most expensive thing most people ever buy, it makes sense that people stick to something that is known to deliver long-term value over taking a risk with little upside (ie, the American car may be cheaper, etc) but lots of potential downside. Like in so many other areas, GM is suffering with “legacy issues”. Most measured stats for quality show that most American and Japanese makers are actually extremely close nowadays, and are actually both better than European cars. But too many of us got burned by crap cars in the 80s or earlier and dropped American cars off the radar in favor of (usually) Toyota and/or Honda.

“Give us a second chance” is a really awful marketing slogan, and since cars are the second most expensive thing most people ever buy, it makes sense that people stick to something that is known to deliver long-term value over taking a risk with little upside (ie, the American car may be cheaper, etc) but lots of potential downside.

]]> By: LarryA http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-16025 LarryA Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:32:11 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-16025 GM sucks plan and simple. I've had a Jeep, various Oldsmobiles, Pontiac, etc. and we had to sink money into all of them. I don't know if it's necessarily the mechanics working on those cars, but rather the engineering of those cars that suck big time. The reason I say that is because as soon as one thing needed replacing on the car/truck, it was like a never-ending money pit -- things just kept breaking. (and this was even with ALL service being done at proper schedule). It was almost like those cars were designed to break after the warranty expired... Anyways, imho - just buy a toyota or honda and you'll be hedging your bet. They're not perfect (pretty darn close)...and at least it's not a GM. :-). My civic lasted me all throughout college with just oil changes, and my acura so far has been awesome... FWIW, my dad has also had good luck with Fords too. GM sucks plan and simple.
I’ve had a Jeep, various Oldsmobiles, Pontiac, etc. and we had to sink money into all of them. I don’t know if it’s necessarily the mechanics working on those cars, but rather the engineering of those cars that suck big time. The reason I say that is because as soon as one thing needed replacing on the car/truck, it was like a never-ending money pit — things just kept breaking. (and this was even with ALL service being done at proper schedule). It was almost like those cars were designed to break after the warranty expired…

Anyways, imho – just buy a toyota or honda and you’ll be hedging your bet. They’re not perfect (pretty darn close)…and at least it’s not a GM. :-) . My civic lasted me all throughout college with just oil changes, and my acura so far has been awesome…

FWIW, my dad has also had good luck with Fords too.

]]> By: Foobarista http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-15982 Foobarista Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:31:44 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-15982 Over the years, I've owned a Honda, two Toyotas, a Saturn, and a Mitsubishi. The Mutt was the worst by far. The Saturn did OK; it ran for 150K miles with a tranny rebuild at 65K, but no other unscheduled service. The first Toyota was my "kid car" bought for $850 - it ran for a year before dying. My current cars are a Honda (Element) and a Camry. The Camry (80K miles) has had no issues at all whatsoever other than scheduled maintenance. The Saturn got stolen at 150K miles (what kind of carthief jacks a car with that many miles?) and we bought the Element before the police recovered it a couple weeks later. Over the years, I’ve owned a Honda, two Toyotas, a Saturn, and a Mitsubishi. The Mutt was the worst by far. The Saturn did OK; it ran for 150K miles with a tranny rebuild at 65K, but no other unscheduled service. The first Toyota was my “kid car” bought for $850 – it ran for a year before dying. My current cars are a Honda (Element) and a Camry. The Camry (80K miles) has had no issues at all whatsoever other than scheduled maintenance.

The Saturn got stolen at 150K miles (what kind of carthief jacks a car with that many miles?) and we bought the Element before the police recovered it a couple weeks later.

]]> By: samerwriter » American Cars - Do They Suck? http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-15974 samerwriter » American Cars - Do They Suck? Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:08:14 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-15974 [...] JLP wrote on All Financial Matters about his recent car woes, asking (I think somewhat tongue-in-cheek) if this might be why GM is having issues. [...] [...] JLP wrote on All Financial Matters about his recent car woes, asking (I think somewhat tongue-in-cheek) if this might be why GM is having issues. [...]

]]> By: Stacey http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-15969 Stacey Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:53:41 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-15969 Recent Toyota recalls aside, we love our Toyotas and have timely performed oil changes as well as the occasional 15k/30K etc. tune-ups. The only mechanical trouble I ever recall was a lack of OOMPH in my Celica after 90K miles. Our models have included: 1987 Celica ST; 1992 Camry (probably the best Camry model,) 1998 Camry, 1998 Sienna (used), 2002 Camry, 2005 Avalon, 2006 Sienna, and for train station cars: a 1981? Tercel (used) and a 1983? Corolla (used.) We beat that last sucker into the ground. I still almost pee w/laughter when I recall the year we had a bumper crop of tomatoes. Can't remember why we did this, but my husband filled his trunk w/them and then parked at the train station for his commute. Needless to say, after a day of baking in the sun, his car stunk (like stewed tomatoes!!) Guess you had to have seen the rusty blue car filled w/mushy toms to truly appreciate the moment!! My parents are a loyal Toyota family now too, after decades of Buicks and Oldsmobiles. My dad's 1997 Camry is going strong at 200K! Recent Toyota recalls aside, we love our Toyotas and have timely performed oil changes as well as the occasional 15k/30K etc. tune-ups. The only mechanical trouble I ever recall was a lack of OOMPH in my Celica after 90K miles. Our models have included: 1987 Celica ST; 1992 Camry (probably the best Camry model,) 1998 Camry, 1998 Sienna (used), 2002 Camry, 2005 Avalon, 2006 Sienna, and for train station cars: a 1981? Tercel (used) and a 1983? Corolla (used.) We beat that last sucker into the ground. I still almost pee w/laughter when I recall the year we had a bumper crop of tomatoes. Can’t remember why we did this, but my husband filled his trunk w/them and then parked at the train station for his commute. Needless to say, after a day of baking in the sun, his car stunk (like stewed tomatoes!!) Guess you had to have seen the rusty blue car filled w/mushy toms to truly appreciate the moment!!

My parents are a loyal Toyota family now too, after decades of Buicks and Oldsmobiles. My dad’s 1997 Camry is going strong at 200K!

]]> By: Michael http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-15964 Michael Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:38:52 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-15964 I know way too much about GM and their products to trust anything spouted by J.D. Power regarding GM and/or American-car reliability ... or pretty much anything else they "rate." The simple fact is that there isn't a perfect car on the road. They all break. Some just break more often, and more reliably, than others. I know way too much about GM and their products to trust anything spouted by J.D. Power regarding GM and/or American-car reliability … or pretty much anything else they “rate.”

The simple fact is that there isn’t a perfect car on the road. They all break. Some just break more often, and more reliably, than others.

]]> By: samerwriter http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-15945 samerwriter Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:46:57 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-15945 Check out this list of "most dependable used cars"; it's almost uncanny how much it is dominated by American models: http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/29/Autos/jdpower_depend_tops/index.htm Check out this list of “most dependable used cars”; it’s almost uncanny how much it is dominated by American models:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/29/Autos/jdpower_depend_tops/index.htm

]]> By: samerwriter http://allfinancialmatters.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/comment-page-1/#comment-15944 samerwriter Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:42:56 +0000 http://allthingsfinancialblog.com/2006/07/24/could-this-be-one-of-the-reasons-gm-is-in-the-toilet/#comment-15944 It is, of course, a little unfair to associate all American cars with a few that have had problems. Reliability is an issue that all manufacturers have deal with; witness the recent rash of Toyota recalls, or the long-term history of problems with German cars. At this point, it's quite likely that the perception of lower quality, reinforced by anecdotal quality problems, drives people away from American cars. Meanwhile people discount anecdotal problems with Japanese cars because of the perception of higher quality. And also notably, JD Power ranks the service departments of vehicle manufacturers: http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=csr&story=csrCsi&referer=advice&aff=projo The top 3 are all American: Lincoln, Cadillac, and Saturn (of course it would be better if you didn't need to use the service department...). 7 of the top 10 are American (if you could Jaguar and Volvo as American -- they're owned by Ford). It is, of course, a little unfair to associate all American cars with a few that have had problems. Reliability is an issue that all manufacturers have deal with; witness the recent rash of Toyota recalls, or the long-term history of problems with German cars.

At this point, it’s quite likely that the perception of lower quality, reinforced by anecdotal quality problems, drives people away from American cars. Meanwhile people discount anecdotal problems with Japanese cars because of the perception of higher quality.

And also notably, JD Power ranks the service departments of vehicle manufacturers:
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&subject=csr&story=csrCsi&referer=advice&aff=projo

The top 3 are all American: Lincoln, Cadillac, and Saturn (of course it would be better if you didn’t need to use the service department…). 7 of the top 10 are American (if you could Jaguar and Volvo as American — they’re owned by Ford).

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