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My Thoughts on the Foley Mess
By JLP | October 6, 2006
Actually, this is my wife’s thoughts.
I don’t normally talk politics on this blog. It is not my intention to alienate readers with my political point of view. However, with this Mark Foley mess, my wife had an interesting question:
If they knew about it before but waited until now to bring it out, aren’t they JUST AS RESPONSIBLE as everyone else who knew about it but didn’t act on it? I’m not saying that the Democrats ARE responsible for this mess, I’m saying that IF they knew about it but didn’t act until now, then they are just as responsible as the Republicans.
Regardless, it is disgusting that this ever happened. And, if Dennis Hastert knew about it but didn’t do anything about it, he needs to resign.
Okay, there’s my 26.5 cents worth. I PROMISE not to talk politics for the rest of year!
Topics: Miscellaneous | 25 Comments »
October 6th, 2006 at 12:54 am
“Just” as responsible is inaccurate. The Democratic leadership does not have the power to remove a Republican, as the Republican leadership does. This is not to say they aren’t responsible, but the degree of responsibility can be measured by the proximity of a given individual to the problem and possible solutions: Foley, of course, bears the most responsibility, followed by those who are responsible for his actions (just as officers are responsible for their soldiers’ behavior), followed by those who know of wrongdoing and are capable of some action, followed by those who know of it and are not capable – and these last presumably bear little ‘responsibility’.
October 6th, 2006 at 1:16 am
Yeah, I am in the midst of a post about this, too.
The Democrats are no way “just as” responsible. Congressional leadership–regardless of who is holding the reigns at the moment–holds more responsibility in this situation. That’s part of the power of being the majority power. (FYI–the only sitting democrat on the cmtte. overseeing the Pages was never even TOLD about the emails.)
There is responsibility if the Democrats knew, but now we’re splitting hairs over this. I am outraged that a member of congress was a borderline (alleged) sexual predator. Alcoholic? Please. Gay? Come on. Sexually abused? What else are you going to throw in there Mark? I know many men who are gay, alcoholic and victims of sexual abuse and not a pedophile among them.
I am outraged at this and I hope that the Republicans get their’s this November (and if the Dems hid this, then I would hope the Dems would get theirs too).
Once again–and at the hands of Republicans–we’ve lost even more moral highground in this country.
October 6th, 2006 at 3:29 am
I can’t believe people would nearly excuse the Democrats in this (if they knew) by saying they couldn’t have done anything about it. Simply by talking to the press they could have done something about it. However, the key here is if they knew, and if they purposely waited until just before election time. Then they not only participated in keeping it quiet, they would have benefited from it, which in my book is pretty disgusting in it’s own.
I’m not even going to get into the Republicans and lost moral highground comment. People seem to forget that Clinton was definitely NOT the beacon of integrity they make him out to be.
October 6th, 2006 at 6:02 am
Uhh, can I point out that there’s no evidence or testimony that the Dems knew about it? If a page comes up and says he told a Dem about this issue then they’re fair game but so far the Dems seem clean (on this issue anyway). This story isn’t about just the action of one GOP member but the the response of the House GOP leadership to it.
October 6th, 2006 at 6:17 am
I really don’t think it matters. If the parties were reversed in this matter, it probably would have turned out exactly the same.
October 6th, 2006 at 6:57 am
its been mentioned in numerous outlet that the timing of the revelation is rather good. I for one feel that way too. especially with the subsequence info on past interactions & instant messages (different from the initial vague, but disturbing emails).
the whole thing is pretty ridiculous, both the cause of the issue (give me a break, rehab?), and those attacking the issue (stupid ads already condemning him as a molester when so far he’s just a pervert). the finger pointing will work better after an investigation reveals actual facts.
it’s also fairly disappointing.
if the republicans lose the house, I’d much rather it be for other issues than a moron and his stupid emails.
October 6th, 2006 at 7:37 am
This sounds like a partisan, or perhaps a very cynical statement.
If this were a home invastion, Foley went into the building. Haster drove the getaway car, and the Democrats may or may not have seen something or heard someone bragging about it. Who’s culpable here? If they knew about it two years ago, I’d have expected they’d talked about it before the presidential elections.
I agree with Cap’s statement though. If the Republicans loose the house (and/or the senate), I hope it’s because the american people have decided that they aren’t performing well, are getting paid off by lobbies, have values contrary to many of us, and can’t keep a financial house in order (anyone listen to Bob Brinker’s Moneytalk last week?).
October 6th, 2006 at 8:31 am
Lots of interesting comments.
John,
I am cynical because of the timing of this thing. It JUST HAPPENS to be at a time when a new name CANNOT be added to the ballot, which essentially gives the seat to a Democrat.
I don’t know if the Democrats knew about this earlier or not. But, IF they did, and they waited until now to drop the bomb, then THEY are as responsible as the Republicans for knowing about it and not doing anything. To say otherwise would be very PARTISAN.
October 6th, 2006 at 9:06 am
JLP – while you post an interesting hypothetical, shouldn’t you have disclaimed in your main post that you have no evidence showing that the Democrats ever knew about this before we did? All the evidence I’ve seen in the responsible press points to the contrary – that the pages told Republicans, that the GOP leadership only shared the info with Republicans (purposefully excluding Democrats), and that the whistleblowers include Republicans (thus damaging the whole “Democratic partisan plot” theory).
October 6th, 2006 at 9:14 am
presser,
Doesn’t the word “if” express doubt? I merely raised the question. I wasn’t stating emphatically that they knew. I have no idea as to whether or not they knew anything until now.
But, if everyone is so worried about who knew what when, then shouldn’t that apply to BOTH parties? Or is bad behavior only associated with one party?
October 6th, 2006 at 9:16 am
A republican congressman is caught exploiting boys and your burning question is about what the Democrats might have known and maybe could have done? I think your priorities are messed up. Considering the Republican stratagies are run by Carl Rove, us regular folks should put the blame where it lies and save the warped spin for the politicians. I think you’ve let them drag you into the mud.
October 6th, 2006 at 9:27 am
I have to agree with David. Your post primarily expresses outrage at what the Dems MIGHT have done, if MAYBE they did it, or POSSIBLY how the timing looks bad. And oh by the way, incidentally that Foley guy is a horrible…
I think it should have been the other way around. You should be more outraged at the Repub’s and reserve judgement on the Dem’s for when you have more FACTS.
October 6th, 2006 at 9:34 am
David & Miguel,
That wasn’t my intent at all. I was in no way trying to defend the Republicans. It just bugs me the way all this is coming to a head right before an election.
October 6th, 2006 at 9:45 am
What’s the point of hypothesizing on a “IF”? If the earth is flat … If all financial advisors are honest … If …
October 6th, 2006 at 10:50 am
Harry, that is what hypothesizing is.
October 6th, 2006 at 10:57 am
The blame rests on Foley, and, since this is a democracy, those who elected such a sleazebag. Being an abused alcoholic does not excuse cybersex with minors. Being a hoodwinked voter once means that next time, we have to be sure that people hear about these stories BEFORE an election – which is exactly what the pages and ABCnews have done.
October 6th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
It is perhaps suspicious that it comes right before an election, but this sort of timing is not as terrifying as the escalation of warfare we’ve seen out of the Republicans at every single midterm.
Foley is responsible for his actions; which, unlike Clinton, involved minors. Comparisons to Clinton obfuscate the problem. Further, it’s proven the Republicans know about it, and I suspect any knowledge the Democrats had must have been circumstantial. They can’t very well go to the press with a half-baked story and not expect the whole thing to get laughed under the table.
I think we would all hope for two parties that maintain moral highground, but in the grand scheme of things, this time one of them is clearly in the wrong, and one of them may or may not have acted dubiously at worst. I don’t think focusing on the Democrats is productive, and indeed in this case seems to serve to protect those who are really to blame by spreading out that blame. For that matter, I might make the analogy to bad debt; one wants to pay off your highest interest debt first, and that seems to be Foley and the company he keeps. (Kept?)
October 6th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
BD, saying the blame for Foley also rests on those who elected him, is one of the most rediculous things I have ever heard. Are the voters supposed to hook them to a polygraph and give them a 100-point inspection before they vote for an individual?
October 6th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
A little odd timing, yes, but it wouldn’t be as if they had a monopoly on that. We’ve had warfare escalations and terror threat elevations, just coincidently of course, from the Republicans near each of the last elections.
October 6th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
If the Dems knew about this earlier, they’re lower than anyone else who knew about it.
My reasoning:
If the Reps knew about this months ago and didn’t take action, they should have acted but didn’t, so they’re culpable (at least in my eyes).
However, if the Dems knew about it months ago and sat on it until it would serve their political agenda, they’re worse. Just like the Reps, they should have spoke up when they found out. If the knew and waited, that was 2 wrongs.
And, in my view, it’s pretty coincidental that they learned about it so close to election. Give me a break…
October 6th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
WearyTraveller: Your logic is fairly lacking. How does one person sitting and waiting, hoping for political advantage outweight another person sitting and waiting, hoping to avoid punishment altogether?
But you are correct, anyone who knew about it and did nothing should probably be voted out. The prejudice should not land on the Democrats, though, even if you think they were aiming for political advantage.
October 6th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
Everyone is missing the big thing here. This was the Democrats’ “October Surprise”. Even if they waited, voters will just look at the whole fact that he is a Republican. It will be a hit on the Republican Party in FL, but I doubt it will be a national hit. I thought this was funny. Fox News reported that Foley was a Democrat. Check the picture here. http://www.efipo.com/20061004/fox-news-ministry-of-truth/
October 6th, 2006 at 7:23 pm
You’ve all been sucked in to the partisanship of today’s charged political atmosphere. Why is every scandal immediately transformed into Democrat vs. Republican? Foley could just as easily have been a Democrat. In fact: At the age of 23 Foley was appointed to the Lake Worth City Council as a Democrat. After some failed bids for higher political offices, he switched parties in the 1980s. Of course the parties are going to “politicize” everything, by timing or spin or whatever. I would encourage you to step back and look at each new event by individual, event, or person, not by party, for surely with each judgement you make based on an individual’s party, you will be forced to “justify” a slightly different opinion when it’s your party of choice that is affected. Be consistent, and let principles guide you.
October 6th, 2006 at 10:15 pm
JLP, please revisit my list of 100 things about me…and look at #25. So now I’ll play “big sis” here: you’re great when you stick to blogging on financial planning concepts… talking politics just gets folks’ fur up and to what benefit? Yes, it provides a healthy discussion, blah, blah, blah. The authorities will do their job, and we can only hope that truth and justice prevail. Obviously, I’m not God: I don’t know who knew what, when. I do feel we are becoming increasingly unable to forgive people for lapses in judgment. (Note: I’m not referring to Foley nor Hastert here, I’m speaking in generalities…) One one hand: Is perfection all that we’re able to accept anymore? Yet, daily people witness folks doing the wrong thing: cheating on their taxes, their spouses, etc. Do we speak up at each of these instances, or just let the chips fall where they may?
This is just another sick, sad episode of the lack of morality in our citizenry.
Have fun selling popcorn this weekend…Perhaps Congress should spend some time in Scouting…(except for Foley, that is…)
October 7th, 2006 at 11:02 am
JLP – if you want to get the comments rolling in, just mention politics. 24 comments so far. Don’t you wish that people were just as passionate about retirements savings, or the other things you blog about?