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	<title>Comments on: Just How Expensive is a Payday Loan?</title>
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	<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/</link>
	<description>A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance.</description>
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		<title>By: Tom Drake</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-309489</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Drake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 16:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-309489</guid>
		<description>I suggest taking all that research and comments to a person in need and see what the will tell you. I guess for the people that have lots of money is easier to blame the payday loan companies comment on how easy is to save with the prices on everything these days. There will always be money problems and different options, payday loans included on those... How about letting people decide by themselves? Comments like such demand that the commenter gets out on the streets and starts building that better option for people with small cash need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suggest taking all that research and comments to a person in need and see what the will tell you. I guess for the people that have lots of money is easier to blame the payday loan companies comment on how easy is to save with the prices on everything these days. There will always be money problems and different options, payday loans included on those&#8230; How about letting people decide by themselves? Comments like such demand that the commenter gets out on the streets and starts building that better option for people with small cash need.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Johnson</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-284541</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-284541</guid>
		<description>Great Article. In Colorado, I have seen payday loans with interest rates in excess of 1500%APR. I have also had clients who had to take bankruptcy, not because of larger credit card debts, but because of payday loans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Article. In Colorado, I have seen payday loans with interest rates in excess of 1500%APR. I have also had clients who had to take bankruptcy, not because of larger credit card debts, but because of payday loans.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Rogers</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-175538</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-175538</guid>
		<description>===============================================
Humorist Will Rogers said, &quot;All I know is what I read in the newspapers.&quot;  If that&#039;s all you know, you won&#039;t know that &quot;return on innvestment&quot; is thousands of percent per year in the &quot;payday loan&quot; industry.  (Proving that is a trivial exercise; contact &quot;loanmath33@yahoo.com&quot;.)

The terms, &quot;interest rate&quot;, &quot;cost of borrowing&quot;, &quot;return on investment&quot;, and &quot;time-value of money&quot; were coined and defined by money-&quot;lenders&quot;; in any &quot;loan&quot; transaction, their values are equal.  (For proof of that, see any textbook on bona-fide &quot;loan&quot;-math; titles are available
from &quot;loanmath33@yahoo.com&quot;.)

Mankind has long known how to do &quot;loan&quot;-math; 
grifters and their lackeys have long known how to deceive those ignorant of it.

If the fortnightly &quot;payday loan fee&quot; is $9.66 per $100 or more, alleging &quot;annual interest rate&quot; to be less than 1,000 percent per year demonstrates either abysmal ignorance or a desire to deceive.
===============================================</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>===============================================<br />
Humorist Will Rogers said, &#8220;All I know is what I read in the newspapers.&#8221;  If that&#8217;s all you know, you won&#8217;t know that &#8220;return on innvestment&#8221; is thousands of percent per year in the &#8220;payday loan&#8221; industry.  (Proving that is a trivial exercise; contact &#8220;loanmath33@yahoo.com&#8221;.)</p>
<p>The terms, &#8220;interest rate&#8221;, &#8220;cost of borrowing&#8221;, &#8220;return on investment&#8221;, and &#8220;time-value of money&#8221; were coined and defined by money-&#8221;lenders&#8221;; in any &#8220;loan&#8221; transaction, their values are equal.  (For proof of that, see any textbook on bona-fide &#8220;loan&#8221;-math; titles are available<br />
from &#8220;loanmath33@yahoo.com&#8221;.)</p>
<p>Mankind has long known how to do &#8220;loan&#8221;-math;<br />
grifters and their lackeys have long known how to deceive those ignorant of it.</p>
<p>If the fortnightly &#8220;payday loan fee&#8221; is $9.66 per $100 or more, alleging &#8220;annual interest rate&#8221; to be less than 1,000 percent per year demonstrates either abysmal ignorance or a desire to deceive.<br />
===============================================</p>
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		<title>By: J. Crenshaw</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-164753</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Crenshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-164753</guid>
		<description>Hi Dale:

In the formula on question 16, should you divide the rate the same # as the power (365/14) and should the power be a negative #?

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dale:</p>
<p>In the formula on question 16, should you divide the rate the same # as the power (365/14) and should the power be a negative #?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-85343</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-85343</guid>
		<description>J. Crenshaw asked about the math on loans that are rolled over.  It&#039;s ugly, very ugly.  You have a loan here that is compounded biweekly with a 25% interest rate for that period.  If you calculate the compounded interest rate for that for an entire year, the math is:

APR = (1 + i)(365 / 14) - 1

In case the HTML for the superscript doesn&#039;t come through the comment filters right, that&#039;s 1.25 to the power of (365 / 14) minus 1.

That&#039;s 336.18.  It looks even scarier when you shift the decimal point 2 places to the right to get a percentage.  Yes, that comes to 33618% APR when it is compounded.  Assuming the victim isn&#039;t cut off long before that, he could borrow $100 to get his car fixed and find himself owing $33,618 a year later.

More realistically would be rolling the loan over 3-4 times before he&#039;s cut off.  Let&#039;s say 4 times.  After 8 weeks, the balance on the loan will be $244.  If the pay day loan people decide that they can risk that $244, they can always let him go another 8 weeks, by which time the balance will have grown to $596.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J. Crenshaw asked about the math on loans that are rolled over.  It&#8217;s ugly, very ugly.  You have a loan here that is compounded biweekly with a 25% interest rate for that period.  If you calculate the compounded interest rate for that for an entire year, the math is:</p>
<p>APR = (1 + i)(365 / 14) &#8211; 1</p>
<p>In case the HTML for the superscript doesn&#8217;t come through the comment filters right, that&#8217;s 1.25 to the power of (365 / 14) minus 1.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s 336.18.  It looks even scarier when you shift the decimal point 2 places to the right to get a percentage.  Yes, that comes to 33618% APR when it is compounded.  Assuming the victim isn&#8217;t cut off long before that, he could borrow $100 to get his car fixed and find himself owing $33,618 a year later.</p>
<p>More realistically would be rolling the loan over 3-4 times before he&#8217;s cut off.  Let&#8217;s say 4 times.  After 8 weeks, the balance on the loan will be $244.  If the pay day loan people decide that they can risk that $244, they can always let him go another 8 weeks, by which time the balance will have grown to $596.</p>
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		<title>By: Mapgirl&#8217;s Fiscal Challenge / Alternative Carnival of Personal Finance #90</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-84687</link>
		<dc:creator>Mapgirl&#8217;s Fiscal Challenge / Alternative Carnival of Personal Finance #90</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-84687</guid>
		<description>[...] Payday Loan Math [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Payday Loan Math [...]</p>
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		<title>By: J. Crenshaw</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-84473</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Crenshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-84473</guid>
		<description>I see that the math for calculating APRs on single loans is simple.  Could you provide an example of a loan rolled over 3 or 4 times?

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that the math for calculating APRs on single loans is simple.  Could you provide an example of a loan rolled over 3 or 4 times?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Free Money Finance</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-82549</link>
		<dc:creator>Free Money Finance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 11:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-82549</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Star Money Articles for the Week of Feb. 26&lt;/strong&gt;

Here are interesting posts and news this week from the MoneyBlogNetwork members and beyond: MightyBargainHunter asks if it&#039;s time to sell your house and rent. Five Cent Nickel tells how to profit from 0% balance transfer credit card offers. Blueprint</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Star Money Articles for the Week of Feb. 26</strong></p>
<p>Here are interesting posts and news this week from the MoneyBlogNetwork members and beyond: MightyBargainHunter asks if it&#8217;s time to sell your house and rent. Five Cent Nickel tells how to profit from 0% balance transfer credit card offers. Blueprint</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-81790</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-81790</guid>
		<description>CustomersRevenge is absolutely right.  

And of course let&#039;s not forget those thieves at the hamburger stores who cook a hamburger with ingredients that cost one dollar and then charge us THREE DOLLARS for that same hamburger!  That&#039;s a 200% markup for a measley hamburger.  

My point is that the payday stores aren&#039;t just raking in pure profit.  They have to pay rent, they have to pay someone to stand behind the counter, security, insurance, utilities, taxes, defaults by the highest risk borrowers.  And at the end of the day they walk away with only $15 per transaction.  Big banks can charge lower rates for secured loans to better credits because they are much larger dollar amounts.  A 1% spread on a $500,000 mortgage is $500 per year.  It&#039;s a lot easier to pay the overhead on $5000 transactions than $15 transactions.  If anyone thinks payday lenders are making outsized profits, there is nothing stopping them from opening up their own store across the street and charging less.  That&#039;s the free market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CustomersRevenge is absolutely right.  </p>
<p>And of course let&#8217;s not forget those thieves at the hamburger stores who cook a hamburger with ingredients that cost one dollar and then charge us THREE DOLLARS for that same hamburger!  That&#8217;s a 200% markup for a measley hamburger.  </p>
<p>My point is that the payday stores aren&#8217;t just raking in pure profit.  They have to pay rent, they have to pay someone to stand behind the counter, security, insurance, utilities, taxes, defaults by the highest risk borrowers.  And at the end of the day they walk away with only $15 per transaction.  Big banks can charge lower rates for secured loans to better credits because they are much larger dollar amounts.  A 1% spread on a $500,000 mortgage is $500 per year.  It&#8217;s a lot easier to pay the overhead on $5000 transactions than $15 transactions.  If anyone thinks payday lenders are making outsized profits, there is nothing stopping them from opening up their own store across the street and charging less.  That&#8217;s the free market.</p>
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		<title>By: Mapgirl&#8217;s Fiscal Challenge / History of Usury and Some Thoughts on PayDay Loan Stuff</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/02/25/just-how-expensive-is-a-payday-loan/comment-page-1/#comment-81197</link>
		<dc:creator>Mapgirl&#8217;s Fiscal Challenge / History of Usury and Some Thoughts on PayDay Loan Stuff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=1613#comment-81197</guid>
		<description>[...] Payday Loan Math from JLP at All Financial Matters. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Payday Loan Math from JLP at All Financial Matters. [...]</p>
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