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	<title>Comments on: Question of the Day &#8211; Frugal vs. Cheap</title>
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	<description>A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance.</description>
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		<title>By: dhh</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-254723</link>
		<dc:creator>dhh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-254723</guid>
		<description>Anon:  No you&#039;re not being cheap at Starbucks if you don&#039;t leave a tip.  Tipping is always discretionary (although it is more of an expectation at a service location such as a full service restaurant presuming the service was adequate).  I have several friends who work at SB and say that tips are appreciated, but not expected, and usually they are so busy they don&#039;t really know who tips and who doesn&#039;t.  In your case a cashier is filling a cup of coffee and handing it to you.  No big deal..no tip required.  If you were one of those customers that expects a &quot;half caf, 180 degree soy latte with no foam and please add a splenda before you pour the milk&quot; kind of customers...maybe a tip is in order as that&#039;s not a standard drink and it&#039;s going to take some effort by the staff to make you happy.   Or if you&#039;re a regular and they are astute enough to have your usual order ready for you when you get to the front of the line.  They&#039;re being personable to you, and saving you a bit of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon:  No you&#8217;re not being cheap at Starbucks if you don&#8217;t leave a tip.  Tipping is always discretionary (although it is more of an expectation at a service location such as a full service restaurant presuming the service was adequate).  I have several friends who work at SB and say that tips are appreciated, but not expected, and usually they are so busy they don&#8217;t really know who tips and who doesn&#8217;t.  In your case a cashier is filling a cup of coffee and handing it to you.  No big deal..no tip required.  If you were one of those customers that expects a &#8220;half caf, 180 degree soy latte with no foam and please add a splenda before you pour the milk&#8221; kind of customers&#8230;maybe a tip is in order as that&#8217;s not a standard drink and it&#8217;s going to take some effort by the staff to make you happy.   Or if you&#8217;re a regular and they are astute enough to have your usual order ready for you when you get to the front of the line.  They&#8217;re being personable to you, and saving you a bit of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Janine Bolon</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-108691</link>
		<dc:creator>Janine Bolon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 20:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-108691</guid>
		<description>Susan:

Thank you for reading my web site. I would encourage you to rethink waiting to implement the 60/40 principle until you are out of debt. This is how you work it. With every bit of cash that comes your way that is NOT your paycheck apply the 60/40 to it NOW. Don&#039;t wait until you&#039;ve paid off all your credit cards. You&#039;ll have better luck and faster financial security if you act now. If you have additional questions for me, visit my blog or my web site and I&#039;ll do my best to answer them. I want you debt free sooner rather than later that&#039;s what 60/40 is all about. Have a great summer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan:</p>
<p>Thank you for reading my web site. I would encourage you to rethink waiting to implement the 60/40 principle until you are out of debt. This is how you work it. With every bit of cash that comes your way that is NOT your paycheck apply the 60/40 to it NOW. Don&#8217;t wait until you&#8217;ve paid off all your credit cards. You&#8217;ll have better luck and faster financial security if you act now. If you have additional questions for me, visit my blog or my web site and I&#8217;ll do my best to answer them. I want you debt free sooner rather than later that&#8217;s what 60/40 is all about. Have a great summer!</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-108652</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 13:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-108652</guid>
		<description>These responses opened my eyes and I will re-think how I operate.  Usually I&#039;m frugal but at times I&#039;ve been cheap and I think life is too short and long to feel like you&#039;ve got to get all you can for a penny.  Besides, I read a website by Janine Bolon with her 60/40 proposition.  As soon as I have dispensed with huge credit card debt, I plan to adopt her principles.  Giving 20% of your net income is a part of her plan and I like that. It is fun and when you do it with an open heart and expect nothing in return, it does come back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These responses opened my eyes and I will re-think how I operate.  Usually I&#8217;m frugal but at times I&#8217;ve been cheap and I think life is too short and long to feel like you&#8217;ve got to get all you can for a penny.  Besides, I read a website by Janine Bolon with her 60/40 proposition.  As soon as I have dispensed with huge credit card debt, I plan to adopt her principles.  Giving 20% of your net income is a part of her plan and I like that. It is fun and when you do it with an open heart and expect nothing in return, it does come back.</p>
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		<title>By: JLP</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-96618</link>
		<dc:creator>JLP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-96618</guid>
		<description>anon,

Excellent question.

Personally, I generally don&#039;t tip at Starbucks.  Why?  I never really thought about it, I guess.  That and the fact that Starbucks charges enough for their coffee in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anon,</p>
<p>Excellent question.</p>
<p>Personally, I generally don&#8217;t tip at Starbucks.  Why?  I never really thought about it, I guess.  That and the fact that Starbucks charges enough for their coffee in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-96617</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-96617</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a question for you all. If I order a plain cup of coffee at Starbucks and I don&#039;t put change in the tip jar, am I being frugal or cheap?

Why should I tip for a such a simple service? Yet so many establishments put the tip jar right there on the counter and it creates a sense of obligation or guilt. 

I could understand tipping the barrista for making that special cafe mocha latte extra thin blah blah, but coffee???

Please, tell me if I&#039;m off base here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a question for you all. If I order a plain cup of coffee at Starbucks and I don&#8217;t put change in the tip jar, am I being frugal or cheap?</p>
<p>Why should I tip for a such a simple service? Yet so many establishments put the tip jar right there on the counter and it creates a sense of obligation or guilt. </p>
<p>I could understand tipping the barrista for making that special cafe mocha latte extra thin blah blah, but coffee???</p>
<p>Please, tell me if I&#8217;m off base here.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacey</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-96450</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-96450</guid>
		<description>JLP, I&#039;m almost back from the dead! Taking a little break from tax hell--6 days and counting &#039;til I have free time to read my fav blog--yours!

Anyway, ditto on the frugal vs. cheap comments. To me, frugality is a virtue, whereas cheapness is a vice. 

Still looking for garage sales feedback? I&#039;ve &quot;endured&quot; participating in one almost every year...as a child and now as an adult. Frankly, the less free time I have in my life, the more I&#039;m starting to despise the time and effort it takes in preparing and executing the sale. However, I feel it&#039;s a learning experience for my boys on a multitude of levels. 

First, obviously there&#039;s the lesson of interacting w/a variety of people, most of whom are wonderful. Of course, there are a handful that are annoying w/their attitudes...I chose whether to sell to them or not. I take pleasure in holding firm to my price when they&#039;re jerks.

Second, the business aspects of setting the right price, making change, packaging the goods, etc. are important lessons.

Third, my boys have started selling coffee and hot dogs at our annual sale...again, a hands-on lesson.

But most importantly, I point out to them the WASTE that is evident from our tables overflowing w/almost-new toys, etc. (from over-generous family.) It&#039;s the old need vs. want argument. Those tables paint a thousand words!

Anyway, I&#039;ll continue to have them...even if it&#039;s only a few tables w/the kids&#039; castoffs and their &quot;food stands.&quot; Whatever&#039;s left gets donated to friends/family/charity. Clutter-free is my goal!

PS Miguel and Sam--I&#039;ve missed you! You too, JLP ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JLP, I&#8217;m almost back from the dead! Taking a little break from tax hell&#8211;6 days and counting &#8217;til I have free time to read my fav blog&#8211;yours!</p>
<p>Anyway, ditto on the frugal vs. cheap comments. To me, frugality is a virtue, whereas cheapness is a vice. </p>
<p>Still looking for garage sales feedback? I&#8217;ve &#8220;endured&#8221; participating in one almost every year&#8230;as a child and now as an adult. Frankly, the less free time I have in my life, the more I&#8217;m starting to despise the time and effort it takes in preparing and executing the sale. However, I feel it&#8217;s a learning experience for my boys on a multitude of levels. </p>
<p>First, obviously there&#8217;s the lesson of interacting w/a variety of people, most of whom are wonderful. Of course, there are a handful that are annoying w/their attitudes&#8230;I chose whether to sell to them or not. I take pleasure in holding firm to my price when they&#8217;re jerks.</p>
<p>Second, the business aspects of setting the right price, making change, packaging the goods, etc. are important lessons.</p>
<p>Third, my boys have started selling coffee and hot dogs at our annual sale&#8230;again, a hands-on lesson.</p>
<p>But most importantly, I point out to them the WASTE that is evident from our tables overflowing w/almost-new toys, etc. (from over-generous family.) It&#8217;s the old need vs. want argument. Those tables paint a thousand words!</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;ll continue to have them&#8230;even if it&#8217;s only a few tables w/the kids&#8217; castoffs and their &#8220;food stands.&#8221; Whatever&#8217;s left gets donated to friends/family/charity. Clutter-free is my goal!</p>
<p>PS Miguel and Sam&#8211;I&#8217;ve missed you! You too, JLP <img src='http://allfinancialmatters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Miguel</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-96431</link>
		<dc:creator>Miguel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-96431</guid>
		<description>@DB - I really like your definition of frugality vs cheapness - it&#039;s what I was driving towards but you stated it so much better than I could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DB &#8211; I really like your definition of frugality vs cheapness &#8211; it&#8217;s what I was driving towards but you stated it so much better than I could.</p>
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		<title>By: db</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-96428</link>
		<dc:creator>db</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-96428</guid>
		<description>I think frugal isn&#039;t necessarily something you do that only impacts yourself (the implied connotation is in a negative sense). I think there is a certain goodwill aspect to frugality that is absent from cheapness.

To me frugality goes hand in hand with &quot;walking softly on the earth&quot;, and this implies a certain consideration of yourself and others, the greater community. I think you are frugal in part because you recognize that resources available to you have a limit -- that they do have a certain cost -- and out of self-care you seek to maximize your efficient use of those resources. Likewise, the act of living frugally can possibly allow others to have the benefit of having more resources available to them. It&#039;s not so much a scarcity mentality as an honest evalution of how much is enough.

For example, if you choose to eat more frugally, one fringe benefit could be that another person has the opportunity to eat from the resources that you didn&#039;t consume (or buy with the intent to consume but throw out as waste). So frugality really is about good stewardship of what you have, it&#039;s a recognition and respect for the true cost of things to yourself (and perhaps others).

In contrast, I think (as others have alluded to) that being cheap is a different aspect of being greedy. You want MORE stuff for yourself, but you also want to avoid the burden of its true cost. Being cheap, being greedy and hording are all related and they all stem from a scarcity mentality.

My two cents,
DB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think frugal isn&#8217;t necessarily something you do that only impacts yourself (the implied connotation is in a negative sense). I think there is a certain goodwill aspect to frugality that is absent from cheapness.</p>
<p>To me frugality goes hand in hand with &#8220;walking softly on the earth&#8221;, and this implies a certain consideration of yourself and others, the greater community. I think you are frugal in part because you recognize that resources available to you have a limit &#8212; that they do have a certain cost &#8212; and out of self-care you seek to maximize your efficient use of those resources. Likewise, the act of living frugally can possibly allow others to have the benefit of having more resources available to them. It&#8217;s not so much a scarcity mentality as an honest evalution of how much is enough.</p>
<p>For example, if you choose to eat more frugally, one fringe benefit could be that another person has the opportunity to eat from the resources that you didn&#8217;t consume (or buy with the intent to consume but throw out as waste). So frugality really is about good stewardship of what you have, it&#8217;s a recognition and respect for the true cost of things to yourself (and perhaps others).</p>
<p>In contrast, I think (as others have alluded to) that being cheap is a different aspect of being greedy. You want MORE stuff for yourself, but you also want to avoid the burden of its true cost. Being cheap, being greedy and hording are all related and they all stem from a scarcity mentality.</p>
<p>My two cents,<br />
DB</p>
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		<title>By: Miguel</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-96400</link>
		<dc:creator>Miguel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-96400</guid>
		<description>Reading the above comments helped better refine my thoughts on frugality vs. cheapness. The comments along the lines of &quot;cheapness is something people do to others&quot; is spot on. I guess that&#039;s what I was getting at when I stated that &quot;It’s frugality until it starts to really affect your relationships and how you interact with people.&quot; 

Cheapness is the compulsion to extract unreasonable monetary gains at the expense of others. It is the twin sibling of greed, which you could almost define in exactly the same way.

Give you an example. I was at a meeting recently where we had some excellent sandwiches catered for dinner. At the end of meeting, there was plenty of food leftover, and a couple of people at the meeting carried sandwiches home. Now, when I tell you that these people are worth more than you and me put together times 50, believe it. 

Were they being cheap? 

I think no - they were only being frugal. Good food, plenty left over, why not take some home to share. It has nothing to do with whether you could afford it or not.

Now if we add a hypothetical twist - What if one of them set the best sandwiches aside to keep for himself before anybody even got to eat? Now THAT would be CHEAP. 

Why? Because he would have done it at the expense of the rest of us having fewer choices. He would have acted out of greed rather than practicality.

This is why I don&#039;t wish to be friends with cheap people - ultimately, they can&#039;t be trusted. Their greed will eventually get the better of them, probably at my expense. And who needs friends like that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading the above comments helped better refine my thoughts on frugality vs. cheapness. The comments along the lines of &#8220;cheapness is something people do to others&#8221; is spot on. I guess that&#8217;s what I was getting at when I stated that &#8220;It’s frugality until it starts to really affect your relationships and how you interact with people.&#8221; </p>
<p>Cheapness is the compulsion to extract unreasonable monetary gains at the expense of others. It is the twin sibling of greed, which you could almost define in exactly the same way.</p>
<p>Give you an example. I was at a meeting recently where we had some excellent sandwiches catered for dinner. At the end of meeting, there was plenty of food leftover, and a couple of people at the meeting carried sandwiches home. Now, when I tell you that these people are worth more than you and me put together times 50, believe it. </p>
<p>Were they being cheap? </p>
<p>I think no &#8211; they were only being frugal. Good food, plenty left over, why not take some home to share. It has nothing to do with whether you could afford it or not.</p>
<p>Now if we add a hypothetical twist &#8211; What if one of them set the best sandwiches aside to keep for himself before anybody even got to eat? Now THAT would be CHEAP. </p>
<p>Why? Because he would have done it at the expense of the rest of us having fewer choices. He would have acted out of greed rather than practicality.</p>
<p>This is why I don&#8217;t wish to be friends with cheap people &#8211; ultimately, they can&#8217;t be trusted. Their greed will eventually get the better of them, probably at my expense. And who needs friends like that?</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/comment-page-1/#comment-96337</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/04/09/question-of-the-day-frugal-vs-cheap/#comment-96337</guid>
		<description>I would second (or third) the ideas above that frugal is something that you do to your self, while cheap is something that you do to others. For example:

Frugal is saving the extra ketchup packets and napkins included in your sack of take-out food and using them later.  Cheap is stuffing your pockets full of ketchup packets and napkins while in the restaurant, while telling people that &quot;they are here for our use&quot;.  Obnoxious is taking a big wad of  napkins and ketchup, using a couple, then throwing most of them in the trash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would second (or third) the ideas above that frugal is something that you do to your self, while cheap is something that you do to others. For example:</p>
<p>Frugal is saving the extra ketchup packets and napkins included in your sack of take-out food and using them later.  Cheap is stuffing your pockets full of ketchup packets and napkins while in the restaurant, while telling people that &#8220;they are here for our use&#8221;.  Obnoxious is taking a big wad of  napkins and ketchup, using a couple, then throwing most of them in the trash.</p>
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