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	<title>Comments on: Retiring Early?  When Should You Start Taking Social Security Benefits?</title>
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	<description>A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance.</description>
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		<title>By: &#187; Independence Week Roundup!</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-437362</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Independence Week Roundup!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 03:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-437362</guid>
		<description>[...] JLP tackles the difficult question of when to start taking social security payments. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] JLP tackles the difficult question of when to start taking social security payments. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Babu</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-331255</link>
		<dc:creator>Babu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 02:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-331255</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a member of a &#039;new wave&#039; forming out here. 

I just turned 62, I&#039;m a self-employed professional woman and 1.) in the last thirty months I mined my entire retirement provisions EXCEPT SS to pay for the protracted (and otherwise unfunded) end-of-life costs of both a 95 year old parent and a partner; 2.) being of necissity absent from it, my business is stalled, and 3.) I&#039;m emotionally and physically exhausted from it all.

Any comments on how to evaluate whether I  benefit more if I claim SS now at 62 with its attnendant penalties - which will still require additional income to live --  or cobble together a new business or other (modest) employment for the next four and a half years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a member of a &#8216;new wave&#8217; forming out here. </p>
<p>I just turned 62, I&#8217;m a self-employed professional woman and 1.) in the last thirty months I mined my entire retirement provisions EXCEPT SS to pay for the protracted (and otherwise unfunded) end-of-life costs of both a 95 year old parent and a partner; 2.) being of necissity absent from it, my business is stalled, and 3.) I&#8217;m emotionally and physically exhausted from it all.</p>
<p>Any comments on how to evaluate whether I  benefit more if I claim SS now at 62 with its attnendant penalties &#8211; which will still require additional income to live &#8212;  or cobble together a new business or other (modest) employment for the next four and a half years?</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-165461</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 00:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-165461</guid>
		<description>Re: losing some of your benefits if you earn too much.  My understanding is that you don&#039;t really lose anything in the long run.  The reduction in benefit is not a reduction in what you get each month, but your benefit is reduced in that you don&#039;t receive a payment every month.  Let&#039;s say you &quot;lose&quot; 50% of your benefit due to earnings in a year.  You&#039;ll receive a payment for 6 months and no payment for the other six.  Those six months are then added to the age that you retired for the purposes of calculations.  At full retirement age, you would receive the benefit amount you would have received had you retired at 62-1/2 rather than 62 (if that happened for only one year). 

Also, the money you earn helps raise the payment later on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: losing some of your benefits if you earn too much.  My understanding is that you don&#8217;t really lose anything in the long run.  The reduction in benefit is not a reduction in what you get each month, but your benefit is reduced in that you don&#8217;t receive a payment every month.  Let&#8217;s say you &#8220;lose&#8221; 50% of your benefit due to earnings in a year.  You&#8217;ll receive a payment for 6 months and no payment for the other six.  Those six months are then added to the age that you retired for the purposes of calculations.  At full retirement age, you would receive the benefit amount you would have received had you retired at 62-1/2 rather than 62 (if that happened for only one year). </p>
<p>Also, the money you earn helps raise the payment later on.</p>
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		<title>By: EMF</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-120910</link>
		<dc:creator>EMF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-120910</guid>
		<description>I should clarify that my comments in #21 were in references to the link that Andrew gave in comment #20.

My link above from this comment to to a post on my blog that explores in greater detail the possible benefit from delaying SS benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should clarify that my comments in #21 were in references to the link that Andrew gave in comment #20.</p>
<p>My link above from this comment to to a post on my blog that explores in greater detail the possible benefit from delaying SS benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: EMF</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-120345</link>
		<dc:creator>EMF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-120345</guid>
		<description>The gist of the article is a comparison of
(1) the cost of an inflation-adjusted two-life annuity in the open market which is equal to the increased benefits from waiting a year past Normal Retirement Age to start collecting
Vs (2) the cost of the benefits you give up during the one-year waiting period 

The article points out that for a married person, the cost of the SS benefits lost waiting for a year is less than the cost of buying the annuity on the open market.

Being a single person, the cost of a single-life annuity is less.  But running the numbers, I also would come out ahead by waiting a year. And if SS benefits drop to 75% of what they are now, I still come out about even. 

Who loses out from such an approach?  Your heirs, if you die earlier.  I don&#039;t think that is an important consideration.  Best thing you can do for your heirs is manage your retirement so you don&#039;t depend on them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gist of the article is a comparison of<br />
(1) the cost of an inflation-adjusted two-life annuity in the open market which is equal to the increased benefits from waiting a year past Normal Retirement Age to start collecting<br />
Vs (2) the cost of the benefits you give up during the one-year waiting period </p>
<p>The article points out that for a married person, the cost of the SS benefits lost waiting for a year is less than the cost of buying the annuity on the open market.</p>
<p>Being a single person, the cost of a single-life annuity is less.  But running the numbers, I also would come out ahead by waiting a year. And if SS benefits drop to 75% of what they are now, I still come out about even. </p>
<p>Who loses out from such an approach?  Your heirs, if you die earlier.  I don&#8217;t think that is an important consideration.  Best thing you can do for your heirs is manage your retirement so you don&#8217;t depend on them.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-119781</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-119781</guid>
		<description>Interesting article on this:

http://assetbuilder.com:9669/blogs/scott_burns/archive/2006/09/30/A-Real-Life-Case-for-Delaying-Social-Security-Benefits.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article on this:</p>
<p><a href="http://assetbuilder.com:9669/blogs/scott_burns/archive/2006/09/30/A-Real-Life-Case-for-Delaying-Social-Security-Benefits.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://assetbuilder.com:9669/blogs/scott_burns/archive/2006/09/30/A-Real-Life-Case-for-Delaying-Social-Security-Benefits.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Skilled Investor</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-119747</link>
		<dc:creator>The Skilled Investor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-119747</guid>
		<description>Concerning when to take Social Security benefits, the Boston College Center for Retirement Research ( http://crr.bc.edu/index.php ) has some research in their publications section that addresses this subject. In particular, see &quot;SHOULD WE RAISE SOCIAL SECURITY’S EARLIEST ELIGIBILITY AGE&quot; by Alicia H. Munnell, Kevin B. Meme, Natalia A. Jivan, and Kevin E. Cahill. ( http://crr.bc.edu/images/stories/Briefs/ib_18.pdf )

Munnell, et. al. state that payments are set to be &quot;actuarially fair&quot; with respect to taking benefits earlier than full retirement age, which ranges from 66 to 67 depending on your current age. Obviously, you can model the problem with a range of investment return assumptions that will seem to shift the decision one way or the other. But, if you start with the presumption that the payout model is set up to be neutral for the average person, then you need to determine how you  in particular (and your spouse) might differ from the average. 

Assuming that you do not absolutely need the money to live on, then you might make this timing decision on other factors. Some of the more important factors that comes to mind is relative health and history of longevity in the family. If you and/or your spouse are relatively more (less) healthy than your peer group in your early 60s (when you are first faced with this decision), you might choose to delay (accelerate) accepting Social Security payments. Similarly with family longevity. No matter what, it&#039;s a crap shoot from the standpoints of health, longevity, investment returns, etc., because the future is fundamentally unpredictable.

My two cents, The Skilled Investor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning when to take Social Security benefits, the Boston College Center for Retirement Research ( <a href="http://crr.bc.edu/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://crr.bc.edu/index.php</a> ) has some research in their publications section that addresses this subject. In particular, see &#8220;SHOULD WE RAISE SOCIAL SECURITY’S EARLIEST ELIGIBILITY AGE&#8221; by Alicia H. Munnell, Kevin B. Meme, Natalia A. Jivan, and Kevin E. Cahill. ( <a href="http://crr.bc.edu/images/stories/Briefs/ib_18.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://crr.bc.edu/images/stories/Briefs/ib_18.pdf</a> )</p>
<p>Munnell, et. al. state that payments are set to be &#8220;actuarially fair&#8221; with respect to taking benefits earlier than full retirement age, which ranges from 66 to 67 depending on your current age. Obviously, you can model the problem with a range of investment return assumptions that will seem to shift the decision one way or the other. But, if you start with the presumption that the payout model is set up to be neutral for the average person, then you need to determine how you  in particular (and your spouse) might differ from the average. </p>
<p>Assuming that you do not absolutely need the money to live on, then you might make this timing decision on other factors. Some of the more important factors that comes to mind is relative health and history of longevity in the family. If you and/or your spouse are relatively more (less) healthy than your peer group in your early 60s (when you are first faced with this decision), you might choose to delay (accelerate) accepting Social Security payments. Similarly with family longevity. No matter what, it&#8217;s a crap shoot from the standpoints of health, longevity, investment returns, etc., because the future is fundamentally unpredictable.</p>
<p>My two cents, The Skilled Investor</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-119730</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-119730</guid>
		<description>Excellent point, EMF.  A lower discount rate reflecting inflation adjusted return makes more sense.   Actually the best way to calculate this would be using the &quot;dividend discount model&quot; assuming constant growth of payments and today&#039;s nominal interest rate, but I think we have beat this one to death.

The bottom line is that all the differences in these calculations are overwhelmed by the uncertainties of the actual size of the future payments since Congress can do anything they choose.  Since there is much more likelihood that because of funding issues SS payments will be reduced than increased in the future (either directly or through higher taxation or by extending the means testing), all signs are that one should start taking payments as soon as possible after the $1 for $2 penalty period is passed (currently 66).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point, EMF.  A lower discount rate reflecting inflation adjusted return makes more sense.   Actually the best way to calculate this would be using the &#8220;dividend discount model&#8221; assuming constant growth of payments and today&#8217;s nominal interest rate, but I think we have beat this one to death.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that all the differences in these calculations are overwhelmed by the uncertainties of the actual size of the future payments since Congress can do anything they choose.  Since there is much more likelihood that because of funding issues SS payments will be reduced than increased in the future (either directly or through higher taxation or by extending the means testing), all signs are that one should start taking payments as soon as possible after the $1 for $2 penalty period is passed (currently 66).</p>
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		<title>By: EMF</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-119720</link>
		<dc:creator>EMF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-119720</guid>
		<description>--Tom--
I got a chance to do my own number crunching.  First, I calculated NPV for your figures to age 85.  I got:
Age 62: $232340
Age 66: $227470
Age 70: $211550
The results are similar to yours.  The difference may be in the compounding intervals, and whether transactions occur at the beginning or end of a period.

Then I recalculated NPV, based on an interest rate of 1.7% which is the difference between the 5.2% you used and a Social Security COLA of 3.5%.  The results for NPV:
Age 62: $341223
Age 66: $362624
Age 70: $364956
This shows an increase in NPV for waiting to retire.  And that the COLA is important.  You suggested ignoring COLA if it matched inflation, but your discount rate should also be adjusted for inflation. 

Also suggests that the break-even age is less than 85 years of age.  Perhaps the 75 -78 years of age on the calculator provided on the SSA website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8211;Tom&#8211;<br />
I got a chance to do my own number crunching.  First, I calculated NPV for your figures to age 85.  I got:<br />
Age 62: $232340<br />
Age 66: $227470<br />
Age 70: $211550<br />
The results are similar to yours.  The difference may be in the compounding intervals, and whether transactions occur at the beginning or end of a period.</p>
<p>Then I recalculated NPV, based on an interest rate of 1.7% which is the difference between the 5.2% you used and a Social Security COLA of 3.5%.  The results for NPV:<br />
Age 62: $341223<br />
Age 66: $362624<br />
Age 70: $364956<br />
This shows an increase in NPV for waiting to retire.  And that the COLA is important.  You suggested ignoring COLA if it matched inflation, but your discount rate should also be adjusted for inflation. </p>
<p>Also suggests that the break-even age is less than 85 years of age.  Perhaps the 75 -78 years of age on the calculator provided on the SSA website.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/comment-page-1/#comment-119711</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/07/05/retiring-early-when-should-you-start-taking-social-security-benefits/#comment-119711</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that you have to look at this with your spouse&#039;s benefits in mind too. I was originally thinking of taking my benefit at 62, based on NPV calculations, but am now looking at waiting until I get a full benefit at 66, so my wife&#039;s benefits are higher both while I am alive and when I am not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that you have to look at this with your spouse&#8217;s benefits in mind too. I was originally thinking of taking my benefit at 62, based on NPV calculations, but am now looking at waiting until I get a full benefit at 66, so my wife&#8217;s benefits are higher both while I am alive and when I am not.</p>
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