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Should Municipalities Use Cameras to Catch Red Light Runners?
By JLP | August 28, 2007
The city council in my town is meeting today to decide whether or not to pursue installing cameras at some of the busy intersections to catch people who run red lights. I have to say that I like this idea a lot. I’m sick of people running red lights! It seems like the problem is getting worse. It seems like EVERY light I sit through, I witness at least 2 – 3 people who either turn on a red light or simply speed through an intersection well after the light has turned red.
I think the problem is getting worse because cities are increasing the amount of time that people have to go through a light, which means everyone else has to wait longer if they miss the light. So, knowing this, people are determined NOT to get stuck at a light and that’s why they barrel on through. It’s very stupid but that’s human nature for you.
So, you know my opinion on this. Now I’d like you to share your’s.
Topics: Question of the Day | 34 Comments »
August 28th, 2007 at 11:00 am
We have camera enforcement at about a dozen intersections here. I don’t know what it has done for accident prevention or if it has hurt traffic flow . . . they aren’t forthcoming with results and it’s pretty early to have conclusions anyway. It’s probably a good thing. I get irritated at red lights, usually because people are SO SLOW to react. I’ve been known to push through a yellow, and it’s almost always because someone ahead of me wasted so much time that 3-4 cars are forced to wait an extra cycle.
With that said, we just need to change the way we think about traffic lights. A few tickets from the automated system is sure to do it for some people.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Only if they use the same cameras to catch people who turn without signaling. At least at a red light I can tell that a car has a certain momentum and predict whether it will or will not slow down. People who make lane changes (yes, it’s a right turn lane, but you MUST signal to enter it) or turns without signaling are unpredictable and dangerous.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Hello,
I am NOT only sick of people run the red lights, but also very, very sick of people not respecting the speed limits.
I strictly follow the speed limits and am always driving in the slow lane and these idiots tail gate even in slow lanes.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:27 am
RV,
I’m one of those speeders. I guess I’m a hypocrit of sorts. I do however, try not to tailgate those who go slower than I do unless they are in the wrong lane.
August 28th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
I would reconsider the usage of Red Light Cameras. Red Light cameras are not the solution to the issue of running red lights. In 2002, in San Diego Red Light Cameras were installed. After installation rear end accidents went up 62%, because people would stop short to avoid running the light. They also found that by increasing yellow times reduced red light violations 42%. All of this came at the cost of installing the cameras, which ultimately ended up with cost overages and never made the money to pay for the system in the first place.
I experienced a similar situation in Charlotte. They originally installed cameras that used film instead of the digital cameras which were more expensive. After awhile the costs of the program were too much to bear, and the program was shelved becasue of costs and lack of improvement. Though to be fair, in the Charlotte case, there were also extra costs as the state mandated that a percentage of revenues go to the schools.
Here in Boston, they have debated for the four years that we have been here about the red light cameras. Pretty much every time is is brought up the decision is made to increase police enforcement and forego the red light cameras, because they just don’t add up to what you would hope for.
August 28th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
We’ve had speed cameras and red light cameras for quite a while over here (UK) and people get used to stopping properly at a red light. Which is good because that is what they should be doing anyway.
August 28th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
I agree with RV, I think the speed limit system is out of control as well. It seems like if you drive the speed limit you literally will have people riding your ass because they think you are going slow. I think camera’s could also resolve this issue and the intersection camera’s would be helpful. The problem is they dont know who was driving the vehicle.
August 28th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I don’t really speed (wastes gas) and I don’t have a problem with running reds, so the installation of cameras here in Houston hasn’t been a problem for me. There was an article in the paper last week about how few people contest the fines, so it seems like a pretty good revenue stream for the city. I don’t object to other people paying fines. But I do wish there was more enforcement of school zone speed limits. That one burns me up.
August 28th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
I don’t think that this should be done. I don’t like the idea of the government having surveillance on people. Granted, I get annoyed at people that don’t follow the courtesies of driving, but unless it is a school zone, a residential neighborhood, or just reckless driving, I don’t think that the government needs to even be involved in traffic violations. Traffic ordinances should otherwise just be used for determining causation in accidents, etc.
Honestly, why should people be ticketed and fined because the government causes problems with its incompetent handling of traffic regulation? So long as people are not endangered (which is covered by tightly regulating traffic in school zones, residential neighborhoods, and not allowing reckless driving), why worry?
August 28th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Nope, because it will be found unconstitutional or something and will just be a waste of taxpayer money. They had that problem in VA Beach but supposedly they’re going to turn the cameras on again. It can be a great way to boost revenue if it works, though.
August 28th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
Plus, red light runners will just get that spray or those plastic covers that obscure their license plates, keeping them from getting tickets and emboldening them to be ever more reckless.
August 28th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
I say yes. And those sprays don’t work, and in most states I think the plastic covers are illegal.
August 28th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
I think those plastic covers SHOULD be illegal! I never realized what they were for until Dimes mentioned it.
August 28th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
There is very little cost to the municipalities for installing red light camera systems. These systems are contracted to private companies who are given a percentage of the ticket revenue as payment for operating and maintaining the system. The only cost to the municipalites is to pay law enforcement to monitor the tapes for issuance of tickets and for the finance department to account for the ticket revenue. The increase in revenue from the tickets is more than enough to pay for this small cost.
Specifying one study in San Diego is misleading. Overall, studies gathered from programs in many municipalities across the country overwhelming show that the instances of accidents are lowered and the number of infractions decrease over time. A google search is all that is required to discover these results.
August 28th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
How is this even constitutional?
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right [...] to be confronted with the witnesses against him;”
August 28th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
I agree with most of the posters here – Compounding you are totally off the wall.
>I don’t like the idea of the government having >surveillance on people.
You are on a public street. What are these cameras going to see that a police officer standing at the intersection won’t see?
>Granted, I get annoyed at people that don’t follow the >courtesies of driving
They are NOT courtesies – they are LAWS. Driving is not a right, it is a privilege, and one that should be revoked if you are unable to follow the laws. These laws exist to minimize accidents – if everyone followed them all of the time traffic accidents would be almost non-existant. If they were merely courtesies, then the roads would be chaos.
>I don’t think that the government needs to even be >involved in traffic violations
Again – LAWS – which it is the gov’t job to enforce. Are you saying we should abolish driver licensing and registrations? What about tax money spent on road repair, etc. And how are you going to catch reckless driving without enforcement? I think you would quickly change your tune if people started driving on the wrong side of the road, going through red lights (throughout the light), etc.
>So long as people are not endangered (which is covered by >tightly regulating traffic in school zones, residential >neighborhoods, and not allowing reckless driving), why >worry?
HELLO – you can injure other drivers as well!!
I don’t usually make such long comments, but that was the stupidest and most un-thought remark I’ve heard in a long, long time.
August 28th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
How is this even constitutional?
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right […] to be confronted with the witnesses against him;”
1) You can contest the ticket and go to court, where they will show you the video.
2) Technically, traffic violations are not criminal prosecutions.
August 28th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
I agree with what some of ‘King of debt’ said. I think red light cameras should be used selectively, otherwise they can create more accidents than they’re worth.
In my town we’ve had red light cameras at some busy intersections for a number of years. One intersection, in particular, is very dangerous.
All the locals know about the cameras, and I know I try and avoid that light as much as possible. It creates alot of anxiety for locals because they are aware of the red light camera and are willing to stop. Drivers behind them are not so cautious. Locals feel like sitting ducks at this intersection.
The problem is the light sits on a patch of road which people tend to speed on; and to top it off the light sits at the end of a 50yd downward slope.
I live about 350 yards from the intersection and work from home. Guess how many times I’ve heard skid outs and the sound of crunching metal? Alot.
August 28th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
I am not in favor of red light cameras. Too much government control for me. And they are all about the revenue stream that is coming in. You heard about the city that installed the cameras and then shortened the yellow light timing without telling anyone so that they could catch more drivers and keep the revenue stream flowing.
August 28th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Sam,
Fair enough. However, how do we get people to quit running red lights? It’s getting worse all the time.
August 28th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Here in NC law enforcement does not review the ticket, it is reviewed by the private company that issued the ticket and contracts with the govt entity. Any appellate process is also through the company. It is for this reason I don’t like them. If you get the ticket you won’t get your day in court, as you would had an actual policeman written the ticket. It is a moot point here in NC. The State Supreme ruled that 50% of the ticket had to go the local school district, thereby making it too expense for the local municipalities to have private corps run the program.
August 28th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
JLP,
Not sure how you make red-light runners go away. You just have to look after yourself. Honestly, I’m one of the people that a commenter above loathes. At a red-light I wait until I see the cross traffic decelerating before I take my foot off the brake. It is not the most efficient I agree but its the only personal solution I can think of.
August 28th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
There are two types of red-light runners – those that want to pass the intersection because the cars in front are extremely slow, and those that blatantly cross the intersection even after they see the red light.
Yellow lights should be longer by taking time out of the green light to do so. That should help the people that just want to cross the intersection after 1-2 slow cars.
As for the cars that blatantly run the red light, I think car cameras will help, but not enough to offset the cost of the cameras. Those are extremely expensive and basically come out of your taxes which could be going towards education or better city services. Policemen who patrol the roads should be the ones to catch red-light runners and fine them accordingly; I believe running a red-light carries a hefty fine. Cameras catch some drivers that purposely run red lights, but also catch people that are just trying to get across the intersection after some slowpoke. All in all, it’s not worth it.
There are red-light cameras in LA, but I’m pretty sure LA just uses them to increase municipal funds rather than prevent accidents from running a red light (traffic moves so insanely slow that such incidents are rare).
August 28th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
I like it as well. I’m absolutely sick of how selfish people are getting on the roads. They can’t use their turn signals, constantly cut off people, jump from lane to lane because they think the other one is going a bit faster, can’t read signs that say “Do Not Block Intersection”…. I swear a majority of drivers these days should trade in their personal vehicles for a trip on the short bus.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
Another thing to keep in mind, and it depends on the the specific state, but a lot of times the red light “ticket” is a minor fine and there is no ill affect on the driver’s insurance (again, depending on the state). Also, even though companies are contracted to provide the service, the city still has to pay them for the installation of the cameras and a dollar amount for the actual servicing of the program. That dollar amount doesn’t change if the number of violators causes revenues to be less than the amount to be paid to the company.
There are other proven options that won’t cost cities and states as much money. Longer yellows and greater police enforcement are both proven methods of reducing red light running.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:16 am
Personally I think its a good idea, yes it may be another revenue stream for the community, but that aside people who run red lights are a danger on the roads. If they know that they’ll get a ticket in the mail because they run the light it might just prevent them from doing so. The safety aspect alone is worth putting those cameras up.
We’ve got those cameras up on some corners and they make those intersections safer for us pedestrians.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:39 am
In my city we had a study done by an outside consultant, on how to improve traffic flow. They spent $50,000 on it.
The conclusion of the study was to eliminate about 40% of the current traffic lights, and force people to use intersections where traffic lights would be located.
On one east/west 6 lane road(+ a center turning lane) running through the city, there are 25 traffic lights located on a possible 27 intersections. That’s over 90% of the intersections on that street alone.
I know for a fact that some people may run these yellow/red lights because of the gauntlet they must travel through.
Just my 2 cents.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:44 am
I should have mentioned that not one street light was removed based on the studies recommendations.
And additional street lights have been installed.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:12 am
I forgot to mention on the study above.
None of the street lights recommended to be removed by the study, were removed. Zip. Nada.
Since the study more street lights have been added.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:12 am
To stop people from running red lights, you could deploy spike strips when the light turns red, so that people who drive over them will destroy their tires. The only problem is that it might affect the flow of traffic in other directions (like people turning right on red, or emergency vehicles, for example).
Obviously this isn’t a practical solution, but unless the consequences are 1) guaranteed and 2) unpleasant/expensive, people won’t change their behavior. Impounding and krushing cars would cost too much too, though it would be an equally effective deterrent.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Yet another instance of government regulation begetting more regulation: The city increases light times, more people run the lights so they don’t have to wait, suddenly we need cameras. And plastic rectangles become illegal. *sigh*
The National Motorists Association gives quite an impressive list of reasons why red-light cameras are bad ideas. http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/
August 30th, 2007 at 9:58 am
We have them here in Cary, NC and I heard they were thinking of doing away with them because the expenses of operating, maintaining, and recordkeeping were not making it worthwhile.
Also placement of the lights matters. There is a confusing intersection here near a very popular shopping center. I got stuck with a red light ticket because half-way through the light, a two cars ahead, a person realized they were in the wrong lane and stopped the whole flow of cars going through the light….The ticket is like a ticket from the Mafia…they coerce you “If you pay it on time, we won’t report it to your insurance company and it won’t go on your driving record”
I’d also reiterate the comments above: it increases the likelihood of rear-end collisions as some folks will slam on the brake to stop as soon as the light turns yellow (I know the theory is that folks shouldn’t be following so closely, but the reality is that they do and this just increases the likelihood of an accident). I’ve seen a few close calls recently.
August 30th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Perhaps the answer is to install roundabout everywhere, thus elimnating the need for lights.
September 4th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Every time these cameras are mentioned, the word revenue is mentioned. I’m sorry, but doesn’t every police officer in the United States (world?) have the power to write these same tickets? If the intersection is dangerous, it is the red lights fault? How about a little enforcement, rather than lazy revenue generation. Or maybe I am just bitter after sitting for nearly 5 minutes watching invisible (non-existent) cross traffic while waiting for my light to change at 6 in the morning. If police ticketed every violator of all laws every time, then people would slow down quite a bit. I remember when 55 was a lot more set in stone than 65 or 70 is today as a speed limit.