Comments on: The Changing Face of Health Care http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/ A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance. Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:56:44 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: neophyte http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-146167 neophyte Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:07:51 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-146167 This hurts because it is unfortunately all to true. http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12103 This hurts because it is unfortunately all to true.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=12103

]]> By: » Weekly Roundup: Heroes Is An Amazing Show on Blueprint for Financial Prosperity http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-145207 » Weekly Roundup: Heroes Is An Amazing Show on Blueprint for Financial Prosperity Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:12:20 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-145207 [...] JLP talks about the changing face of healthcare, which is about the GM-UAW. [...] [...] JLP talks about the changing face of healthcare, which is about the GM-UAW. [...]

]]> By: Neith http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-145125 Neith Sat, 29 Sep 2007 05:25:13 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-145125 well, actually, in the Union case, it is an actual contract, isn't it? I mean, that's the whole point of being a Union employee - you pay union dues and all that mess in order to be covered by the union negotiated contract. That seems to me to be a different sort of agreement than Average Joe who takes a job with X benefits. If the company changes them to Y benefits in midstream, he doesn't really have much of a leg to stand on in a contractual sense, but Union Joe has an actual negotiated contract. That's the reason REnegotiating the contracts is so problematic, right? well, actually, in the Union case, it is an actual contract, isn’t it? I mean, that’s the whole point of being a Union employee – you pay union dues and all that mess in order to be covered by the union negotiated contract. That seems to me to be a different sort of agreement than Average Joe who takes a job with X benefits. If the company changes them to Y benefits in midstream, he doesn’t really have much of a leg to stand on in a contractual sense, but Union Joe has an actual negotiated contract. That’s the reason REnegotiating the contracts is so problematic, right?

]]> By: William http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-145016 William Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:37:17 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-145016 Just to add to the pile So when a company says to me "come on board for these benefits" i should know that this is NOT a true statement on their behalf that really they are saying "come on board for these benefits IF we can afford or wish to keep giving them to you". See the difference when i start working for a company a LOT of decisions have to be made on my part such as salary, health benefits(long term and short term) so after consideration i decided whether to go with a company or not. I also dont agree that just because i work for a company that they automatically should give me lifetime benefits BUT IF THEY SAY they will and that is how they attract employees then why ISNT that a contract. They tell employees that they WILL PROVIDE the benefit and for how long. They employee didnt barter those agreements or insist on them and force the companys hand. We all sign a benefits agreement when you join a company and that clearly states what the company is going to pay for and what comes out of your paycheck. Just to add to the pile So when a company says to me “come on board for these benefits” i should know that this is NOT a true statement on their behalf that really they are saying “come on board for these benefits IF we can afford or wish to keep giving them to you”. See the difference when i start working for a company a LOT of decisions have to be made on my part such as salary, health benefits(long term and short term) so after consideration i decided whether to go with a company or not. I also dont agree that just because i work for a company that they automatically should give me lifetime benefits BUT IF THEY SAY they will and that is how they attract employees then why ISNT that a contract. They tell employees that they WILL PROVIDE the benefit and for how long. They employee didnt barter those agreements or insist on them and force the companys hand. We all sign a benefits agreement when you join a company and that clearly states what the company is going to pay for and what comes out of your paycheck.

]]> By: Dr. D http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-145012 Dr. D Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:21:21 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-145012 When companies made "promises" to employees for lifelong health care, there was an assumption that people would die at a much earlier age. Now those benefits are impossible to maintain and keep the company viable. The Baby Boom generation is dragging down the country piece by piece. Ford is just trying not to be one of the first pieces by offering them a reasonable compromise. Considering my generation is getting no pensions, and social security is looking less likely by the day, forgive me if I don't give a crap about these greedy oldsters. When companies made “promises” to employees for lifelong health care, there was an assumption that people would die at a much earlier age. Now those benefits are impossible to maintain and keep the company viable.

The Baby Boom generation is dragging down the country piece by piece. Ford is just trying not to be one of the first pieces by offering them a reasonable compromise.

Considering my generation is getting no pensions, and social security is looking less likely by the day, forgive me if I don’t give a crap about these greedy oldsters.

]]> By: neophyte http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-144793 neophyte Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:57:28 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-144793 Interesting article Ihttp://body.aol.com/condition-center/smoking-cessation/news/article/_a/smokers-more-likely-to-develop-dementia/2007092610390999000 Interesting article

Ihttp://body.aol.com/condition-center/smoking-cessation/news/article/_a/smokers-more-likely-to-develop-dementia/2007092610390999000

]]> By: neophyte http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-144768 neophyte Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:01:10 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-144768 Just a note "FREE" lifetime healthcare" just does not exist in a global economy today. Someone has to pay for it. When the cost increases by leaps and bounds some serious provider housekeeping needs to be done quickly or you have the problems you have today. Either that or you go bankrupt with the weight of retirees. predominantly hourly . When I started as a GM salaried employee over 30 years ago,the working world referred to us as employees of "GENEROUS MOTORS." Well, the salaried ranks have had many,many adjustments to their working contract. It seems that the UAW has had a head in the sand attitude of what was happening to the ENTIRE labor force at the corporation and the world ,not just the UAW rank and file. Dammit ! They (hourly) didn't even buy the products of the company they work for but choose to purchaser an import brand. Not too bright. They thought it was funny. Guaranteed retirement payouts may be a thing of the past for hourly as well since more and more companies are going to 401k programs instead of guaranteed monthly retirements. When I left the average electrician was pulling in about 35% more than a degreed,PE.in the course of a typical year. Overtime (whether worked or not ) 'rockin chair' money helped a lot. Then when the overtime dried up they cried even louder. IT'S UNFAIR HUH ? Just a note “FREE” lifetime healthcare” just does not exist in a global economy today. Someone has to pay for it. When the cost increases by leaps and bounds some serious provider housekeeping needs to be done quickly or you have the problems you have today. Either that or you go bankrupt with the weight of retirees. predominantly hourly .
When I started as a GM salaried employee over 30 years ago,the working world referred to us as employees of “GENEROUS MOTORS.” Well, the salaried ranks have had many,many adjustments to their working contract. It seems that the UAW has had a head in the sand attitude of what was happening to the ENTIRE labor force at the corporation and the world ,not just the UAW rank and file. Dammit ! They
(hourly) didn’t even buy the products of the company they work for but choose to purchaser an import brand. Not too bright. They thought it was funny.

Guaranteed retirement payouts may be a thing of the past for hourly as well since more and more companies are going to 401k programs instead of guaranteed monthly retirements.
When I left the average electrician was pulling in about 35% more than a degreed,PE.in the course of a typical year.
Overtime (whether worked or not ) ‘rockin chair’ money helped a lot. Then when the overtime dried up they cried even louder. IT’S UNFAIR HUH ?

]]> By: sam http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-144758 sam Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:27:10 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-144758 I think that the point of the article is that companies are finding more and more that covering retiree health benefits is too expensive. A cautionary tale for employees assuming that this is a guaranteed benefit forever. As for the $1800 per year, my mother gets a Medigap policy for about $75/month from AARP and pays another $30/month for prescription coverage. Well under $1800/year for both of those policies. And totally out of her own pocket. The moral of the story is that medical insurance and medical coverage is not free and we should quit pretending it is. Assuming that since the company we work for, or the government, is footing the bill that it isn't costing anything is wrong. I think that the point of the article is that companies are finding more and more that covering retiree health benefits is too expensive. A cautionary tale for employees assuming that this is a guaranteed benefit forever.

As for the $1800 per year, my mother gets a Medigap policy for about $75/month from AARP and pays another $30/month for prescription coverage. Well under $1800/year for both of those policies. And totally out of her own pocket.

The moral of the story is that medical insurance and medical coverage is not free and we should quit pretending it is. Assuming that since the company we work for, or the government, is footing the bill that it isn’t costing anything is wrong.

]]> By: Jeremy http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-144755 Jeremy Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:04:19 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-144755 William, these benefits are not a contract. When you take out a loan or make a purchase with a credit card, you are entering a contractual obligation. Just because you work for a company doesn't mean you enter a contract that says "You are guaranteed this health benefit for as long as you work." A group health plan is strictly optional. It is no different than if a company that used to offer a company match with their 401(k) suddenly says, "sorry, starting January 1st we're not going to be matching contributions." Nothing ever said this was an eternal benefit or a specific contract. Sure, it might have been an attractive benefit to help attract new employees or keep employees from leaving, but the company is certainly under no obligation to maintain it. William, these benefits are not a contract. When you take out a loan or make a purchase with a credit card, you are entering a contractual obligation. Just because you work for a company doesn’t mean you enter a contract that says “You are guaranteed this health benefit for as long as you work.”

A group health plan is strictly optional. It is no different than if a company that used to offer a company match with their 401(k) suddenly says, “sorry, starting January 1st we’re not going to be matching contributions.” Nothing ever said this was an eternal benefit or a specific contract. Sure, it might have been an attractive benefit to help attract new employees or keep employees from leaving, but the company is certainly under no obligation to maintain it.

]]> By: William http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-144742 William Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:16:46 +0000 http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/09/27/the-changing-face-of-health-care/#comment-144742 I dont understand the broken promise. If you sign on with a company and they tell you that these benefits are given to you for x year and x amount then that is an obligation. Of course now companies are saying its not financially possible to keep the promise so we will break it or change it. So why do is their credit not damaged like mine if i changed/modified my contract with my mortgage because MY LIFE took a turn for the worst maybe unemployment or disability after all i DIDNT SEE IT COMMING. I dont understand the broken promise. If you sign on with a company and they tell you that these benefits are given to you for x year and x amount then that is an obligation. Of course now companies are saying its not financially possible to keep the promise so we will break it or change it. So why do is their credit not damaged like mine if i changed/modified my contract with my mortgage because MY LIFE took a turn for the worst maybe unemployment or disability after all i DIDNT SEE IT COMMING.

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