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	<title>Comments on: The Democrats Tax Plan</title>
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	<description>A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance.</description>
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		<title>By: lorax</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-163625</link>
		<dc:creator>lorax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-163625</guid>
		<description>Actually, many of the top end of the &quot;super rich&quot; say they want more taxes on themselves.  And the story there is that they want taxes to be more progressive.  So, less taxes for you and more for them.  

Perhaps it&#039;s populist rhetoric, but why should they bother?

I&#039;m not excited about paying taxes either, but I think most of the taxes noise comes from those in the top 5% (modulo the super rich we talked about earlier).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, many of the top end of the &#8220;super rich&#8221; say they want more taxes on themselves.  And the story there is that they want taxes to be more progressive.  So, less taxes for you and more for them.  </p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s populist rhetoric, but why should they bother?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not excited about paying taxes either, but I think most of the taxes noise comes from those in the top 5% (modulo the super rich we talked about earlier).</p>
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		<title>By: Foobarista</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-161858</link>
		<dc:creator>Foobarista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-161858</guid>
		<description>Than he should put his money where his mouth is.  He is far from the only billionaire who thinks cashflow taxes should be higher, but who carefully structures income from their investments to minimize taxes, so their marginal rates are often lower than someone making $50K/year.

One property of high tax regimes: as long as they don&#039;t tax wealth but only income, they cement the very rich in place, while preventing the rise of strivers and new companies that compete with them.  After all, if you&#039;re already super rich, high cashflow taxes won&#039;t threaten your lifestyle or your fortune, but if you&#039;re building your own wealth with cashflow, high taxes crush you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Than he should put his money where his mouth is.  He is far from the only billionaire who thinks cashflow taxes should be higher, but who carefully structures income from their investments to minimize taxes, so their marginal rates are often lower than someone making $50K/year.</p>
<p>One property of high tax regimes: as long as they don&#8217;t tax wealth but only income, they cement the very rich in place, while preventing the rise of strivers and new companies that compete with them.  After all, if you&#8217;re already super rich, high cashflow taxes won&#8217;t threaten your lifestyle or your fortune, but if you&#8217;re building your own wealth with cashflow, high taxes crush you.</p>
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		<title>By: lorax</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-161595</link>
		<dc:creator>lorax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-161595</guid>
		<description>@Foobarista: Warren Buffet is ON RECORD as wanting to pay more taxes.  He has slammed every recent tax decrease on the rich.  Google it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Foobarista: Warren Buffet is ON RECORD as wanting to pay more taxes.  He has slammed every recent tax decrease on the rich.  Google it.</p>
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		<title>By: Foobarista</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-160765</link>
		<dc:creator>Foobarista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-160765</guid>
		<description>The reason schemes like &quot;fair tax&quot; never are popular is they are very visible.  Politicians love hidden taxes, especially if they can be spun as being paid by Someone Else, such as corporate taxes or employer-side shares of payroll taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason schemes like &#8220;fair tax&#8221; never are popular is they are very visible.  Politicians love hidden taxes, especially if they can be spun as being paid by Someone Else, such as corporate taxes or employer-side shares of payroll taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Foobarista</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-160570</link>
		<dc:creator>Foobarista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 06:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-160570</guid>
		<description>The problem with &quot;soak the rich&quot; tax schemes is they miss the real rich, who don&#039;t have much in the way of taxed income versus unrealized capital gains and other untaxed &quot;income&quot;.  Warren Buffett&#039;s not going to have his tax bill increase at all, no matter what the Dems do - his tax lawyers will take care of that.

The people they hit are highly compensated professionals and small business owners, who make good incomes but don&#039;t have the resources to get paid any way other than with salaries, self-employment, or other income, which is already taxed at marginal rates approaching 50% in many states, especially when you include SS/Medicare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with &#8220;soak the rich&#8221; tax schemes is they miss the real rich, who don&#8217;t have much in the way of taxed income versus unrealized capital gains and other untaxed &#8220;income&#8221;.  Warren Buffett&#8217;s not going to have his tax bill increase at all, no matter what the Dems do &#8211; his tax lawyers will take care of that.</p>
<p>The people they hit are highly compensated professionals and small business owners, who make good incomes but don&#8217;t have the resources to get paid any way other than with salaries, self-employment, or other income, which is already taxed at marginal rates approaching 50% in many states, especially when you include SS/Medicare.</p>
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		<title>By: js</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-160552</link>
		<dc:creator>js</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-160552</guid>
		<description>God, after reading that post about the FAIRTAX proposal, I am infuriated beyond belief. I am self employed, make a great living, but was told by my accountant last year (at EOY) to withhold some invoicing to my clients so I would avoid AMT. I mean what the hell is that...I have to tiptoe around not knowing exatcly how much I owe every year and it sooooo confusing. 

I cannot believe that there is a lack of support of the fair tax system. The current system is so freaking flawed, unfair, and BS it makes me want to puke...who else is baffled by all of these nonsense form, estimated payments etc...

What candidates support the fair tax? Lets make a AFM PUSH!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God, after reading that post about the FAIRTAX proposal, I am infuriated beyond belief. I am self employed, make a great living, but was told by my accountant last year (at EOY) to withhold some invoicing to my clients so I would avoid AMT. I mean what the hell is that&#8230;I have to tiptoe around not knowing exatcly how much I owe every year and it sooooo confusing. </p>
<p>I cannot believe that there is a lack of support of the fair tax system. The current system is so freaking flawed, unfair, and BS it makes me want to puke&#8230;who else is baffled by all of these nonsense form, estimated payments etc&#8230;</p>
<p>What candidates support the fair tax? Lets make a AFM PUSH!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-160524</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 02:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-160524</guid>
		<description>While many who are invested in the current income tax system seek to demagog the well-researched FairTax plan (1), FairTax&#039;s theoretical underpinnings have been professionally reviewed (2), and its acceptance in the professional / academic community continues to grow (3). 

Renown economist Laurence Kotlikoff believes that failure to enact the FairTax - choosing instead to try to &quot;flatten&quot; what he deems to be a non-flattenable income tax system - will eventuate into an irrevocable economic meltdown (4) because of the hidden aspects of the current system that make political accountability impossible. Tom Frey, of the DiVinci Institute, foresees the coming collapse of the income tax system (5).

Here is why the FairTax MUST replace the income tax. It&#039;s:

• SIMPLE, easy to understand
• EFFICIENT, inexpensive to comply with and doesn&#039;t cause less-than-optimal business decisions for tax minimization purposes
• FAIR, loophole free and everyone pays their share
• LOW TAX RATE, achieved by broad base with no exclusions
• PREDICTABLE, doesn&#039;t change, so financial planning is possible
• UNINTRUSIVE, doesn&#039;t intrude into our personal affairs or limit our liberty
• VISIBLE, not hidden from the public in tax-inflated prices or otherwise
• PRODUCTIVE, rewards, rather than penalizes, work and productivity

Its benefits are as follows:

For INDIVIDUALS:
• No more tax on income - make as much as you wish
• You receive your full paycheck - no more deductions
• You pay the tax when you buy &quot;at retail&quot; - not &quot;used&quot;
• No more double taxation (e.g. like on current Capital Gains)
• Reduction of &quot;pre-FairTaxed&quot; retail prices by 20%-30%
• Adding back 29.9% FairTax maintains current price levels
• FairTax would constitute 23% portion of new prices
• Every household receives a monthly check, or &quot;pre-bate&quot;
• &quot;Prebate&quot; is &quot;advance payback&quot; for taxes payable on monthly consumption to poverty level
• FairTax&#039;s &quot;prebate&quot; ensures progressivity, poverty protection
• Finally, citizens are knowledgeable of what their tax IS
• Elimination of &quot;parasitic&quot; Income Tax industry
• NO MORE IRS. NO MORE FILING OF TAX RETURNS by individuals
• Those possessing illicit forms of income will ALSO pay the FairTax
• Households have more disposable income to purchase goods
• Savings is bolstered with reduction of interest rates

For BUSINESSES:
• Corporate income and payroll taxes revoked under FairTax
• Business compensated for collecting tax at &quot;cash register&quot;
• No more tax-related lawyers, lobbyists on company payrolls
• No more embedded (hidden) income/payroll taxes in prices
• Reduced costs. Competition - not tax policy - drives prices
• Off-shore &quot;tax haven&quot; headquarters can now return to U.S
• No more &quot;favors&quot; from politicians at expense of taxpayers
• Resources go to R&amp;D and study of competition - not taxes
• Marketplace distortions eliminated for fair competition
• US exports increase their share of foreign markets

For the COUNTRY:
• 7% - 13% economic growth projected in the first year of the FairTax
• Jobs return to the U.S.
• Foreign corporations &quot;set up shop&quot; in the U.S.
• Tax system trends are corrected to &quot;enlarge the pie&quot;
• Larger economic &quot;pie,&quot; means thinner tax rate &quot;slices&quot;
• Initial 23% portion of price is pressured downward as &quot;pie&quot;
increases
• No more &quot;closed door&quot; tax deals by politicians and business
• FairTax sets new global standard. Other countries will follow

(1) http://snipurl.com/taxpanelrebutted (.pdf)
(2) http://snipurl.com/taxnotes_galerebut (.pdf)
(3) http://snipurl.com/econsopenletter (.pdf)
(4) http://snipurl.com/meltdowninprogress
(5) http://snipurl.com/incometaxcollapse

It&#039;s well past time to scrap the tax code ( http://snipr.com/scrapthecode ) and pay for government the way that America&#039;s working men and women are paid - when something is sold.

(Permission is granted to reproduce, in whole or part, provided snipurl.com links are preserved to measure message efficacy. - Ian)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While many who are invested in the current income tax system seek to demagog the well-researched FairTax plan (1), FairTax&#8217;s theoretical underpinnings have been professionally reviewed (2), and its acceptance in the professional / academic community continues to grow (3). </p>
<p>Renown economist Laurence Kotlikoff believes that failure to enact the FairTax &#8211; choosing instead to try to &#8220;flatten&#8221; what he deems to be a non-flattenable income tax system &#8211; will eventuate into an irrevocable economic meltdown (4) because of the hidden aspects of the current system that make political accountability impossible. Tom Frey, of the DiVinci Institute, foresees the coming collapse of the income tax system (5).</p>
<p>Here is why the FairTax MUST replace the income tax. It&#8217;s:</p>
<p>• SIMPLE, easy to understand<br />
• EFFICIENT, inexpensive to comply with and doesn&#8217;t cause less-than-optimal business decisions for tax minimization purposes<br />
• FAIR, loophole free and everyone pays their share<br />
• LOW TAX RATE, achieved by broad base with no exclusions<br />
• PREDICTABLE, doesn&#8217;t change, so financial planning is possible<br />
• UNINTRUSIVE, doesn&#8217;t intrude into our personal affairs or limit our liberty<br />
• VISIBLE, not hidden from the public in tax-inflated prices or otherwise<br />
• PRODUCTIVE, rewards, rather than penalizes, work and productivity</p>
<p>Its benefits are as follows:</p>
<p>For INDIVIDUALS:<br />
• No more tax on income &#8211; make as much as you wish<br />
• You receive your full paycheck &#8211; no more deductions<br />
• You pay the tax when you buy &#8220;at retail&#8221; &#8211; not &#8220;used&#8221;<br />
• No more double taxation (e.g. like on current Capital Gains)<br />
• Reduction of &#8220;pre-FairTaxed&#8221; retail prices by 20%-30%<br />
• Adding back 29.9% FairTax maintains current price levels<br />
• FairTax would constitute 23% portion of new prices<br />
• Every household receives a monthly check, or &#8220;pre-bate&#8221;<br />
• &#8220;Prebate&#8221; is &#8220;advance payback&#8221; for taxes payable on monthly consumption to poverty level<br />
• FairTax&#8217;s &#8220;prebate&#8221; ensures progressivity, poverty protection<br />
• Finally, citizens are knowledgeable of what their tax IS<br />
• Elimination of &#8220;parasitic&#8221; Income Tax industry<br />
• NO MORE IRS. NO MORE FILING OF TAX RETURNS by individuals<br />
• Those possessing illicit forms of income will ALSO pay the FairTax<br />
• Households have more disposable income to purchase goods<br />
• Savings is bolstered with reduction of interest rates</p>
<p>For BUSINESSES:<br />
• Corporate income and payroll taxes revoked under FairTax<br />
• Business compensated for collecting tax at &#8220;cash register&#8221;<br />
• No more tax-related lawyers, lobbyists on company payrolls<br />
• No more embedded (hidden) income/payroll taxes in prices<br />
• Reduced costs. Competition &#8211; not tax policy &#8211; drives prices<br />
• Off-shore &#8220;tax haven&#8221; headquarters can now return to U.S<br />
• No more &#8220;favors&#8221; from politicians at expense of taxpayers<br />
• Resources go to R&amp;D and study of competition &#8211; not taxes<br />
• Marketplace distortions eliminated for fair competition<br />
• US exports increase their share of foreign markets</p>
<p>For the COUNTRY:<br />
• 7% &#8211; 13% economic growth projected in the first year of the FairTax<br />
• Jobs return to the U.S.<br />
• Foreign corporations &#8220;set up shop&#8221; in the U.S.<br />
• Tax system trends are corrected to &#8220;enlarge the pie&#8221;<br />
• Larger economic &#8220;pie,&#8221; means thinner tax rate &#8220;slices&#8221;<br />
• Initial 23% portion of price is pressured downward as &#8220;pie&#8221;<br />
increases<br />
• No more &#8220;closed door&#8221; tax deals by politicians and business<br />
• FairTax sets new global standard. Other countries will follow</p>
<p>(1) <a href="http://snipurl.com/taxpanelrebutted" rel="nofollow">http://snipurl.com/taxpanelrebutted</a> (.pdf)<br />
(2) <a href="http://snipurl.com/taxnotes_galerebut" rel="nofollow">http://snipurl.com/taxnotes_galerebut</a> (.pdf)<br />
(3) <a href="http://snipurl.com/econsopenletter" rel="nofollow">http://snipurl.com/econsopenletter</a> (.pdf)<br />
(4) <a href="http://snipurl.com/meltdowninprogress" rel="nofollow">http://snipurl.com/meltdowninprogress</a><br />
(5) <a href="http://snipurl.com/incometaxcollapse" rel="nofollow">http://snipurl.com/incometaxcollapse</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s well past time to scrap the tax code ( <a href="http://snipr.com/scrapthecode" rel="nofollow">http://snipr.com/scrapthecode</a> ) and pay for government the way that America&#8217;s working men and women are paid &#8211; when something is sold.</p>
<p>(Permission is granted to reproduce, in whole or part, provided snipurl.com links are preserved to measure message efficacy. &#8211; Ian)</p>
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		<title>By: JACK</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-160292</link>
		<dc:creator>JACK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-160292</guid>
		<description>&quot;Progressive taxes are the best thing that happened to this country in terms of reducing income inequality and poverty.&quot;

Really?  Where&#039;s your evidence to support that?  The progressive income tax has only guaranteed one thing -- an ever expanding government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Progressive taxes are the best thing that happened to this country in terms of reducing income inequality and poverty.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really?  Where&#8217;s your evidence to support that?  The progressive income tax has only guaranteed one thing &#8212; an ever expanding government.</p>
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		<title>By: JACK</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-160290</link>
		<dc:creator>JACK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-160290</guid>
		<description>First off, why this is being cheered is beyond me.  Notice that at the same time it is raising taxes on individuals it is lowering taxes on corporations?  Who&#039;s got more money to spare, Exxon or me?

The problem I have with this is the same problem I have with the income tax generally.  There&#039;s no incentive for the government to control spending and yet there&#039;s no effective way for me to protest against this.  I can&#039;t exactly decide to strike and not earn an income.  At least if they raise sales taxes too high, I can at least reduce my spending on non-essentials for a time to demonstrate my distaste.  This is what is evil about an income tax.  It&#039;s wage slavery, pure and simple.

A sales tax need not be terribly regressive if it is structured properly.  But notice what the definition of regressive is there.  Not that the individual is faced with a higher tax burden than others, but that it makes up a larger percentage of their expenditures.  Whereas the progresive income tax is truly unfair, because there are different rules that are applied to one person versus the next.

Finally, if you think that most lawyers and accountants don&#039;t pay social security taxes because you read a single sentence claiming that to be so in a Bloomberg article, well, all I can say is don&#039;t believe everything you read.  The vast majority of lawyers and accountants are employees, not members of a partnership.  And for those who are partners, yes they don&#039;t pay social security taxes.  Instead, they pay two forms of self-employment taxes that are used as the basis of calculating their social security contributions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, why this is being cheered is beyond me.  Notice that at the same time it is raising taxes on individuals it is lowering taxes on corporations?  Who&#8217;s got more money to spare, Exxon or me?</p>
<p>The problem I have with this is the same problem I have with the income tax generally.  There&#8217;s no incentive for the government to control spending and yet there&#8217;s no effective way for me to protest against this.  I can&#8217;t exactly decide to strike and not earn an income.  At least if they raise sales taxes too high, I can at least reduce my spending on non-essentials for a time to demonstrate my distaste.  This is what is evil about an income tax.  It&#8217;s wage slavery, pure and simple.</p>
<p>A sales tax need not be terribly regressive if it is structured properly.  But notice what the definition of regressive is there.  Not that the individual is faced with a higher tax burden than others, but that it makes up a larger percentage of their expenditures.  Whereas the progresive income tax is truly unfair, because there are different rules that are applied to one person versus the next.</p>
<p>Finally, if you think that most lawyers and accountants don&#8217;t pay social security taxes because you read a single sentence claiming that to be so in a Bloomberg article, well, all I can say is don&#8217;t believe everything you read.  The vast majority of lawyers and accountants are employees, not members of a partnership.  And for those who are partners, yes they don&#8217;t pay social security taxes.  Instead, they pay two forms of self-employment taxes that are used as the basis of calculating their social security contributions.</p>
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		<title>By: LiveWell</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-160261</link>
		<dc:creator>LiveWell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2007/10/25/the-democrats-tax-plan/#comment-160261</guid>
		<description>I agree with GLM.  This proposal, on the face of it, may look like they are transferring the tax burden from the &quot;rich&quot; to the poor.  But, $200,000 really isn&#039;t all that much of a household income for places like San Francisco and New York.  It seems to me this proposal is shifting the tax burden to the high cost of living areas.  I live in the Bay area where a middle class house starts at $700,000 so you have to have both people in the couple work.  For a dual income couple, $200,000 isn&#039;t that hard.  Thanks Democrats, as if trying to pay a mortgage in the Bay area and have time for a family isn&#039;t hard enough already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with GLM.  This proposal, on the face of it, may look like they are transferring the tax burden from the &#8220;rich&#8221; to the poor.  But, $200,000 really isn&#8217;t all that much of a household income for places like San Francisco and New York.  It seems to me this proposal is shifting the tax burden to the high cost of living areas.  I live in the Bay area where a middle class house starts at $700,000 so you have to have both people in the couple work.  For a dual income couple, $200,000 isn&#8217;t that hard.  Thanks Democrats, as if trying to pay a mortgage in the Bay area and have time for a family isn&#8217;t hard enough already.</p>
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