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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s the Definition of &#8220;Safe?&#8221;</title>
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	<description>A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance.</description>
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		<title>By: JReality</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-236594</link>
		<dc:creator>JReality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-236594</guid>
		<description>It is frustrating that the investment banks are suddently and indiscriminately deciding not to backstop ANY of the auctions regardless of the quality of the credit.  Even if it&#039;s an AAA MUNI insured by FSA, and even if it has an underlying high quality investment grade rating (without factoring in the insurance), the investment banks still aren&#039;t supporting the auctions.  

I view it as problematic that the investment banks did not disclose the degree of backstopping that was done in the past.  Backstopping is what kept ARS fuctioning as an alternative to money market accounts, because failures virtually neve happened until now.  Now that the Investment Backs discontinued that practice, spreads between ARS verses MM are going to be substantially higher than before, even if things settle down, because investors who need short-term access to the cash are no longer able to view them as a money market alternative.  

By the way, high grade muni ARS bonds that I own have a Mandatory Tender clause in the offering statement, which means that if two consecutive auctions fail, then they will attempt to remarket the securities as fixed income bonds (and buy back the existing bonds from current holders at par).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is frustrating that the investment banks are suddently and indiscriminately deciding not to backstop ANY of the auctions regardless of the quality of the credit.  Even if it&#8217;s an AAA MUNI insured by FSA, and even if it has an underlying high quality investment grade rating (without factoring in the insurance), the investment banks still aren&#8217;t supporting the auctions.  </p>
<p>I view it as problematic that the investment banks did not disclose the degree of backstopping that was done in the past.  Backstopping is what kept ARS fuctioning as an alternative to money market accounts, because failures virtually neve happened until now.  Now that the Investment Backs discontinued that practice, spreads between ARS verses MM are going to be substantially higher than before, even if things settle down, because investors who need short-term access to the cash are no longer able to view them as a money market alternative.  </p>
<p>By the way, high grade muni ARS bonds that I own have a Mandatory Tender clause in the offering statement, which means that if two consecutive auctions fail, then they will attempt to remarket the securities as fixed income bonds (and buy back the existing bonds from current holders at par).</p>
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		<title>By: hammerhead</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-236461</link>
		<dc:creator>hammerhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 00:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-236461</guid>
		<description>Auction rate securities are a form of SIVs that were invented by Goldman Sachs in 1988.  Yes, the same Goldman Sachs that sold subprime CDOs and then shorted them.  Anyone who can get out of financially engineered instruments in this time of imploding CDOs, CLOs, CDSs, SIVs, SIV-lites, CMBSs and Pik-toggle notes, should get out.  If you see the word, &quot;enhanced&quot;, run like the wind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Auction rate securities are a form of SIVs that were invented by Goldman Sachs in 1988.  Yes, the same Goldman Sachs that sold subprime CDOs and then shorted them.  Anyone who can get out of financially engineered instruments in this time of imploding CDOs, CLOs, CDSs, SIVs, SIV-lites, CMBSs and Pik-toggle notes, should get out.  If you see the word, &#8220;enhanced&#8221;, run like the wind.</p>
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		<title>By: CRD</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-235217</link>
		<dc:creator>CRD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-235217</guid>
		<description>Wow...I just read yesterday about how buyers are backing off and liquidity is quite an issue. 
Thanks for putting this out. Can you please email me a copy too? Appreciated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;I just read yesterday about how buyers are backing off and liquidity is quite an issue.<br />
Thanks for putting this out. Can you please email me a copy too? Appreciated!</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-235088</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-235088</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, this is an expensive lesson for the Maher&#039;s not to trust anyone else to do the right thing with your money (especially not a &quot;respectable&quot; brokerage firm - hah!)  Now they&#039;re going to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) in legal fees trying to get the money back in a legal system that is rigged in favor of the brokerage firm (I speak from experience).  Good luck to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, this is an expensive lesson for the Maher&#8217;s not to trust anyone else to do the right thing with your money (especially not a &#8220;respectable&#8221; brokerage firm &#8211; hah!)  Now they&#8217;re going to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions) in legal fees trying to get the money back in a legal system that is rigged in favor of the brokerage firm (I speak from experience).  Good luck to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Money Million</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-234809</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Money Million</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-234809</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s hard to have pity on mega-rich folks who don&#039;t take the time to know where their money is or what&#039;s going on with it. Never assume your broker can&#039;t lose your money; assume that he or she will and make sure that you agree with and understand every investment that is made on your behalf. It&#039;s your money after all. Not knowing to me is like not caring. And it&#039;s probably true. If you are so rich that you can turn over a billion dollars to your broker, $250 million may not mean much to you.-Rich</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to have pity on mega-rich folks who don&#8217;t take the time to know where their money is or what&#8217;s going on with it. Never assume your broker can&#8217;t lose your money; assume that he or she will and make sure that you agree with and understand every investment that is made on your behalf. It&#8217;s your money after all. Not knowing to me is like not caring. And it&#8217;s probably true. If you are so rich that you can turn over a billion dollars to your broker, $250 million may not mean much to you.-Rich</p>
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		<title>By: Cap</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-234762</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-234762</guid>
		<description>Pretty tough situation. It&#039;s hard to see who&#039;s at fault (if any) without seeing the exact guidelines they written up or agreed to. As Lehman said, they checked off the list of 12 types of investment vehicles... Lily does have a point too in that they couldn&#039;t have foreseen this.

I get what you&#039;re saying though JLP, they thought they were parking them at a safe place, until they can setup their own wealth managers to take care of the money... and I suppose in hindsight they should have asked Mr.Liu to find a &quot;professional investment consultant&quot; as Lehman Bros. put it.

Imagine if they had went w/ only Lehman..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty tough situation. It&#8217;s hard to see who&#8217;s at fault (if any) without seeing the exact guidelines they written up or agreed to. As Lehman said, they checked off the list of 12 types of investment vehicles&#8230; Lily does have a point too in that they couldn&#8217;t have foreseen this.</p>
<p>I get what you&#8217;re saying though JLP, they thought they were parking them at a safe place, until they can setup their own wealth managers to take care of the money&#8230; and I suppose in hindsight they should have asked Mr.Liu to find a &#8220;professional investment consultant&#8221; as Lehman Bros. put it.</p>
<p>Imagine if they had went w/ only Lehman..</p>
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		<title>By: Lily</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-234744</link>
		<dc:creator>Lily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-234744</guid>
		<description>I amend my comment: Apparently the Mahers&#039; securities &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/market-movers/2008/02/14/auction-rate-securities-not-such-a-big-deal&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;were in subprime.&lt;/a&gt;

But since the majority of auction-rate securities are backed by munis, I still think my thesis is correct: blame subprime (or the relevant underlying securities) for &quot;unsafeness,&quot; not the auction process or auction-rate securities in general.

And I still think the Mahers should have taken a little time to understand their investments, even if they were paying other people to run their money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I amend my comment: Apparently the Mahers&#8217; securities <a href="http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/market-movers/2008/02/14/auction-rate-securities-not-such-a-big-deal" rel="nofollow">were in subprime.</a></p>
<p>But since the majority of auction-rate securities are backed by munis, I still think my thesis is correct: blame subprime (or the relevant underlying securities) for &#8220;unsafeness,&#8221; not the auction process or auction-rate securities in general.</p>
<p>And I still think the Mahers should have taken a little time to understand their investments, even if they were paying other people to run their money.</p>
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		<title>By: Lily</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-234738</link>
		<dc:creator>Lily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-234738</guid>
		<description>Paul is exactly right.  Michael Kim, the Mahers&#039; lawyer, is spinning a sound byte when he says, &quot;As far as I&#039;m concerned, if we can&#039;t get the money out, and we can&#039;t sell them, that&#039;s a loss.&quot;  It isn&#039;t a loss, except a loss in liquidity.  The Mahers still have bonds, except the bonds have no buyers.  What does this mean?  When the bonds mature, the bond issuers will still pay them back their principle; in the mean time, the bond issuers are sending them coupon (interest) payments.

If, like some other auction-rate securities, the bonds increase in yields (like Port Authority&#039;s 20% yield), then the issuers will likely restructure their capital structure, at which point they&#039;ll still pay back the Mahers.  Until &lt;i&gt;then&lt;/i&gt; the Mahers will earn the higher yield on the bonds they hold.

This is actually a win-win situation for the Mahers unless they need the money &lt;i&gt;right now&lt;/i&gt;, and given that they still have $750MM elsewhere, I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a problem.

The only way that the auction-rate securities they bought aren&#039;t &quot;safe&quot; would be if the underlying bond issuers are not credit-worthy.  But that&#039;s unlikely to be the case if the issuances are munis (the most common auction-rate securities) or even repackaged student loan debt.  I guess Lehman could have put the Mahers&#039; money into some exotic debts, but the article doesn&#039;t make that clear.

Finally, the last bit in the article about companies like 3M, US Airways, and Bristol-Meyers Squibb taking writedowns on auction-rate security is a bit misleading.  There&#039;s a strong possibility that these companies are writing down their debt to claim a tax benefit in the current year or to boost earnings growth the next year, when there is no such writedown.  I&#039;m not certain of the motivation behind the writedowns - but this was the first thing I thought of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul is exactly right.  Michael Kim, the Mahers&#8217; lawyer, is spinning a sound byte when he says, &#8220;As far as I&#8217;m concerned, if we can&#8217;t get the money out, and we can&#8217;t sell them, that&#8217;s a loss.&#8221;  It isn&#8217;t a loss, except a loss in liquidity.  The Mahers still have bonds, except the bonds have no buyers.  What does this mean?  When the bonds mature, the bond issuers will still pay them back their principle; in the mean time, the bond issuers are sending them coupon (interest) payments.</p>
<p>If, like some other auction-rate securities, the bonds increase in yields (like Port Authority&#8217;s 20% yield), then the issuers will likely restructure their capital structure, at which point they&#8217;ll still pay back the Mahers.  Until <i>then</i> the Mahers will earn the higher yield on the bonds they hold.</p>
<p>This is actually a win-win situation for the Mahers unless they need the money <i>right now</i>, and given that they still have $750MM elsewhere, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a problem.</p>
<p>The only way that the auction-rate securities they bought aren&#8217;t &#8220;safe&#8221; would be if the underlying bond issuers are not credit-worthy.  But that&#8217;s unlikely to be the case if the issuances are munis (the most common auction-rate securities) or even repackaged student loan debt.  I guess Lehman could have put the Mahers&#8217; money into some exotic debts, but the article doesn&#8217;t make that clear.</p>
<p>Finally, the last bit in the article about companies like 3M, US Airways, and Bristol-Meyers Squibb taking writedowns on auction-rate security is a bit misleading.  There&#8217;s a strong possibility that these companies are writing down their debt to claim a tax benefit in the current year or to boost earnings growth the next year, when there is no such writedown.  I&#8217;m not certain of the motivation behind the writedowns &#8211; but this was the first thing I thought of.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-234701</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-234701</guid>
		<description>They currently aren&#039;t liquid, but they are still getting paid 6% on the $287 million.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They currently aren&#8217;t liquid, but they are still getting paid 6% on the $287 million.</p>
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		<title>By: JLP</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/comment-page-1/#comment-234559</link>
		<dc:creator>JLP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/02/14/whats-the-definition-of-safe/#comment-234559</guid>
		<description>Toby,

That&#039;s not the point.  The point is that they thought they were in something safe, when in reality, they weren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toby,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not the point.  The point is that they thought they were in something safe, when in reality, they weren&#8217;t.</p>
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