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	<title>Comments on: Interesting: St. John&#8217;s Required Reading</title>
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		<title>By: oedipamaas</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316880</link>
		<dc:creator>oedipamaas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316880</guid>
		<description>@Jon,

I can sympathize with your concern about spreading too thin but justifying this by saying that Western philosophy is the most relevant thought system in today&#039;s world betrays an ignorance that even most Americans have largely remediated. Any person not living under a rock for the past decade can tell you that the rise to super-power status of countries like China and India is undeniable. Once this democratization of world power takes place, diminishing the tyranny of the so-called NGOs that are stifling their growth, it&#039;s only a matter of time before Africa, South-East-Asia and the rest of the world follows suit.

Couple that with the spending and eating habits of Americans, and the increasing godlessness and disintellectualization of Europe (essentially amounting to a complete rejection of any of the values and beliefs you&#039;ll read about in the above list -- so much for relevance) and it&#039;s clear where the balance of future power is headed.

In raising your concern, you make the incorrect assumption that depth of study is only achievable through dividing rational thought based on cultures. The fact of the matter is that when it comes to learning how to think this distinction is imaginary and even harmful. If anything, this reading list raises all sorts of alarm bells regarding the state of liberal arts education today. If you want to make arguments for deep thinking based on a narrow focus, you can continue to take it to absurd limits. Harold Bloom thinks that there is nothing about human nature that one cannot learn from Shakespeare so why not fashion a syllabus based on ruthless dissection of Shakespeare for all four years of college? Compared to that, the above list is but a &quot;basic survey&quot;. 

Part of being a  good thinker  necessarily involves the ability to contrast and view the sum of all human knowledge from a global perspective. Perhaps it was just such a lack of diversification that led your computer science professor to make his unfortunate generalization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jon,</p>
<p>I can sympathize with your concern about spreading too thin but justifying this by saying that Western philosophy is the most relevant thought system in today&#8217;s world betrays an ignorance that even most Americans have largely remediated. Any person not living under a rock for the past decade can tell you that the rise to super-power status of countries like China and India is undeniable. Once this democratization of world power takes place, diminishing the tyranny of the so-called NGOs that are stifling their growth, it&#8217;s only a matter of time before Africa, South-East-Asia and the rest of the world follows suit.</p>
<p>Couple that with the spending and eating habits of Americans, and the increasing godlessness and disintellectualization of Europe (essentially amounting to a complete rejection of any of the values and beliefs you&#8217;ll read about in the above list &#8212; so much for relevance) and it&#8217;s clear where the balance of future power is headed.</p>
<p>In raising your concern, you make the incorrect assumption that depth of study is only achievable through dividing rational thought based on cultures. The fact of the matter is that when it comes to learning how to think this distinction is imaginary and even harmful. If anything, this reading list raises all sorts of alarm bells regarding the state of liberal arts education today. If you want to make arguments for deep thinking based on a narrow focus, you can continue to take it to absurd limits. Harold Bloom thinks that there is nothing about human nature that one cannot learn from Shakespeare so why not fashion a syllabus based on ruthless dissection of Shakespeare for all four years of college? Compared to that, the above list is but a &#8220;basic survey&#8221;. </p>
<p>Part of being a  good thinker  necessarily involves the ability to contrast and view the sum of all human knowledge from a global perspective. Perhaps it was just such a lack of diversification that led your computer science professor to make his unfortunate generalization.</p>
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		<title>By: Harm</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316850</link>
		<dc:creator>Harm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316850</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s arrogant to say we are trying to
impose democracy on a culture with &quot;absolutely
no understanding of it&quot;. Yes, we&#039;ve made
mistakes, as you point out, but we are no more
arrogant than everyone else (which IS still too
much). Reading a selection of the works on
St. John&#039;s formidable reading list could well
make anyone less arrogant.....or more, I&#039;ll
admit, LoL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s arrogant to say we are trying to<br />
impose democracy on a culture with &#8220;absolutely<br />
no understanding of it&#8221;. Yes, we&#8217;ve made<br />
mistakes, as you point out, but we are no more<br />
arrogant than everyone else (which IS still too<br />
much). Reading a selection of the works on<br />
St. John&#8217;s formidable reading list could well<br />
make anyone less arrogant&#8230;..or more, I&#8217;ll<br />
admit, LoL.</p>
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		<title>By: A.J.</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316734</link>
		<dc:creator>A.J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 19:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316734</guid>
		<description>I knew something was up with them...
One time when I was in Annapolis, my parents and I walked through their campus.  My mom asked a girl where the bookstore was, under the assumption that, like many college students, she would understand &quot;bookstore&quot; to mean &quot;place where you buy college merchandise&quot;.  The girl pointed us in the direction of the bookstore, raving about how great it was.  We walked into this building, and it was full of...books.  And it wasn&#039;t like Barnes &amp; Noble.  It was dark and kind of creepy and full of books like the ones on this list.  I guess if you&#039;re into reading a hundred or so centuries-old books, then it is a pretty sweet bookstore</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew something was up with them&#8230;<br />
One time when I was in Annapolis, my parents and I walked through their campus.  My mom asked a girl where the bookstore was, under the assumption that, like many college students, she would understand &#8220;bookstore&#8221; to mean &#8220;place where you buy college merchandise&#8221;.  The girl pointed us in the direction of the bookstore, raving about how great it was.  We walked into this building, and it was full of&#8230;books.  And it wasn&#8217;t like Barnes &amp; Noble.  It was dark and kind of creepy and full of books like the ones on this list.  I guess if you&#8217;re into reading a hundred or so centuries-old books, then it is a pretty sweet bookstore</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316380</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 06:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316380</guid>
		<description>Mrs. Micah,
Amen. You nailed it.  We are so arrogant in this country.  We think we know what&#039;s good for everyone else. We refuse to see things from another&#039;s prospective.  We impose our will and views on them without a care for what they want or actually need. 

It&#039;s okay to make mistakes, which we make plenty of. But then we don&#039;t acknowledge them or seek to find out from others what went wrong. We just continue to impose our will. Our latest big blunder is trying to impose democracy at the end of gun. How unbelievably stupid. Especially, when trying to impose it on a culture that has absolutely no understanding of it.

We also think it&#039;s unpatriotic to question such actions.  This only reinforces our arrogance with stubbornness. Not a great combination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs. Micah,<br />
Amen. You nailed it.  We are so arrogant in this country.  We think we know what&#8217;s good for everyone else. We refuse to see things from another&#8217;s prospective.  We impose our will and views on them without a care for what they want or actually need. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s okay to make mistakes, which we make plenty of. But then we don&#8217;t acknowledge them or seek to find out from others what went wrong. We just continue to impose our will. Our latest big blunder is trying to impose democracy at the end of gun. How unbelievably stupid. Especially, when trying to impose it on a culture that has absolutely no understanding of it.</p>
<p>We also think it&#8217;s unpatriotic to question such actions.  This only reinforces our arrogance with stubbornness. Not a great combination.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs. Micah</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316250</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 22:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316250</guid>
		<description>JLP, yes I did, but I was taught all the good stuff in school. And with that kind of background, it&#039;s hard to understand why people wouldn&#039;t like the US. Then you start learning more and say &quot;ohh.....&quot; 

As you say, every country does bad stuff. And lots of good stuff. It&#039;s important to know both if we want to understand our world. Hence the reason to study Western/American history in depth. Know what brought us here. Know what&#039;s built up perceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JLP, yes I did, but I was taught all the good stuff in school. And with that kind of background, it&#8217;s hard to understand why people wouldn&#8217;t like the US. Then you start learning more and say &#8220;ohh&#8230;..&#8221; </p>
<p>As you say, every country does bad stuff. And lots of good stuff. It&#8217;s important to know both if we want to understand our world. Hence the reason to study Western/American history in depth. Know what brought us here. Know what&#8217;s built up perceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: JLP</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316210</link>
		<dc:creator>JLP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 20:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316210</guid>
		<description>Mrs. Micah,

You left out all the good things the US has done.

Yes, we have made mistakes and done stupid things, but EVERY country has done that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs. Micah,</p>
<p>You left out all the good things the US has done.</p>
<p>Yes, we have made mistakes and done stupid things, but EVERY country has done that.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mrs. Micah</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316203</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 19:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316203</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s where my mom went. I didn&#039;t follow her footsteps because I don&#039;t find Greeks even mildly interesting. I probably know more about them than your average person my age. Probably much more. Thanks mom!

In defense of studying Western civilization, America seems to have a very short memory. I periodically hear people asking &quot;Why do they hate us?&quot; In part, it&#039;s because other countries have longer memories. People in the Middle East remember (through passing it down) the crusader slaughters of even Christian Arabs. They remember the forceful reinstallation of the Shah or the US selling weapons to Saddam. Other countries textbooks may bring up the US internment (&quot;concentration&quot;? without the killing, of course) camps during WWII where the Japanese US citizens got sent. Or the virtual extinction (planned and unplanned) of the First Nations/Native Americans.

If Americans knew more of their own history and how their country (and the West) had interacted with the rest of the world, the world might make a lot more sense.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s where my mom went. I didn&#8217;t follow her footsteps because I don&#8217;t find Greeks even mildly interesting. I probably know more about them than your average person my age. Probably much more. Thanks mom!</p>
<p>In defense of studying Western civilization, America seems to have a very short memory. I periodically hear people asking &#8220;Why do they hate us?&#8221; In part, it&#8217;s because other countries have longer memories. People in the Middle East remember (through passing it down) the crusader slaughters of even Christian Arabs. They remember the forceful reinstallation of the Shah or the US selling weapons to Saddam. Other countries textbooks may bring up the US internment (&#8220;concentration&#8221;? without the killing, of course) camps during WWII where the Japanese US citizens got sent. Or the virtual extinction (planned and unplanned) of the First Nations/Native Americans.</p>
<p>If Americans knew more of their own history and how their country (and the West) had interacted with the rest of the world, the world might make a lot more sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316172</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 17:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316172</guid>
		<description>Spreading yourself too thinly, reading only the &quot;most fun&quot; selections from 20 different cultures.. that&#039;s fine if you&#039;re dabbling, but it&#039;s no way to get true depth of knowledge. If all you&#039;ve done is a basic survey, you&#039;re in no position to make judgments or do much deep thinking.

It&#039;s beneficial to have a thorough understanding of one system of thought (and Western philosophy is the most important and relevant in today&#039;s world) before going on to learn all the other interesting systems.

The sad thing, Andy, is that judging from your comment you do have pretty in-depth knowledge of philosophy, and probably Western philosophy. You know Cauchy&#039;s impact on calculus, something pretty rare outside of math majors who took real analysis. You&#039;ve read Dostoevsky in multiple languages. And now you want to rob people of the experience of learning a beautiful philosophical system in great detail... why? You say Dostoevsky is boring... would you feel justified in saying that if you had only read one book by him? Hopefully not. Can you accurately judge the impact that Western literature has had on you?

Honestly, you sound like a computer science professor I had who said &quot;If you&#039;re a bad programmer, you&#039;ll never learn to be a good one&quot; -- forgetting the 30 years of experience he had and the slow buildup of technology over that time that gave him detailed knowledge of every aspect of programming (whereas today kids are tossed a Java book, their senior project is a web application, and people wonder why the hell they don&#039;t understand pointers in C).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spreading yourself too thinly, reading only the &#8220;most fun&#8221; selections from 20 different cultures.. that&#8217;s fine if you&#8217;re dabbling, but it&#8217;s no way to get true depth of knowledge. If all you&#8217;ve done is a basic survey, you&#8217;re in no position to make judgments or do much deep thinking.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s beneficial to have a thorough understanding of one system of thought (and Western philosophy is the most important and relevant in today&#8217;s world) before going on to learn all the other interesting systems.</p>
<p>The sad thing, Andy, is that judging from your comment you do have pretty in-depth knowledge of philosophy, and probably Western philosophy. You know Cauchy&#8217;s impact on calculus, something pretty rare outside of math majors who took real analysis. You&#8217;ve read Dostoevsky in multiple languages. And now you want to rob people of the experience of learning a beautiful philosophical system in great detail&#8230; why? You say Dostoevsky is boring&#8230; would you feel justified in saying that if you had only read one book by him? Hopefully not. Can you accurately judge the impact that Western literature has had on you?</p>
<p>Honestly, you sound like a computer science professor I had who said &#8220;If you&#8217;re a bad programmer, you&#8217;ll never learn to be a good one&#8221; &#8212; forgetting the 30 years of experience he had and the slow buildup of technology over that time that gave him detailed knowledge of every aspect of programming (whereas today kids are tossed a Java book, their senior project is a web application, and people wonder why the hell they don&#8217;t understand pointers in C).</p>
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		<title>By: Master Phu</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316163</link>
		<dc:creator>Master Phu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 15:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316163</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Andy. You would get a lot of different views about the Western world but you wouldn&#039;t understand a thing about any other cultures. 

Yay a bunch of Europeans disagree about God and the world and it forms the basis for how the Western world works. How about switching out some of those books for literature from other cultures and maybe we can understand how other countries and their people view the world?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Andy. You would get a lot of different views about the Western world but you wouldn&#8217;t understand a thing about any other cultures. </p>
<p>Yay a bunch of Europeans disagree about God and the world and it forms the basis for how the Western world works. How about switching out some of those books for literature from other cultures and maybe we can understand how other countries and their people view the world?</p>
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		<title>By: jadem</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/comment-page-1/#comment-316145</link>
		<dc:creator>jadem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 14:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/05/29/interesting-st-johns-required-reading/#comment-316145</guid>
		<description>Many, many moons ago I attended another well-known school in Annapolis and would often pass by St. John&#039;s on Saturday nights when I was allowed off my campus.  I always wondered why there never seemed to be anybody at that school.  I can only assume they were sequestered while reading from their reading list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many, many moons ago I attended another well-known school in Annapolis and would often pass by St. John&#8217;s on Saturday nights when I was allowed off my campus.  I always wondered why there never seemed to be anybody at that school.  I can only assume they were sequestered while reading from their reading list.</p>
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