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	<title>Comments on: Rethinking How I Tip Restaurant Servers</title>
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	<description>A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance.</description>
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		<title>By: necy</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-364501</link>
		<dc:creator>necy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-364501</guid>
		<description>I just don&#039;t get it.  Are there websites where people complain about how much a lawyer/docter gets paid?  I am a professional server.  I don&#039;t do this job for min. wage, I work for tips.  If I dont give good service don&#039;t tip me 15% but the idea that servers should not be tipped at all is ridiculous.  

Also, with 20 years experience in the business the standard tip out practise is 10% of my tips to the bar, 10% to the busboys and 5% to the maitre d.  Since when did we start having to tip out the dishwashwers or prep cooks?  I dont feel that I am better than anyone but I have a set of skills that a dishwashwer does not.  In many restuarants that is where you start and work your way up to server.  Today, everything has to be &quot;fair&quot; If the dishwasher or prep cook could do my  job they would.  A journeymen carpenter gets paid more than an apprentice.

My advice to waiters dealing with this weird trend of tipping out to every employee of the restuarant, quit.  There are plenty of good establishments who appreciate the rare breed of qualified servers and dont engage in that sort of nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t get it.  Are there websites where people complain about how much a lawyer/docter gets paid?  I am a professional server.  I don&#8217;t do this job for min. wage, I work for tips.  If I dont give good service don&#8217;t tip me 15% but the idea that servers should not be tipped at all is ridiculous.  </p>
<p>Also, with 20 years experience in the business the standard tip out practise is 10% of my tips to the bar, 10% to the busboys and 5% to the maitre d.  Since when did we start having to tip out the dishwashwers or prep cooks?  I dont feel that I am better than anyone but I have a set of skills that a dishwashwer does not.  In many restuarants that is where you start and work your way up to server.  Today, everything has to be &#8220;fair&#8221; If the dishwasher or prep cook could do my  job they would.  A journeymen carpenter gets paid more than an apprentice.</p>
<p>My advice to waiters dealing with this weird trend of tipping out to every employee of the restuarant, quit.  There are plenty of good establishments who appreciate the rare breed of qualified servers and dont engage in that sort of nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: Deb</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-361080</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-361080</guid>
		<description>On the subject of tipping: what about all the restaraunts with &quot;curbside&quot; carry-out service? I always give the &quot;server&quot; some kind of tip, but I&#039;m never sure what the appropriate % is. There is also the difference between places where they bring the order out to your car vs those where you go in to pick it up.

I generally tip more if I never have to leave my car - especially when the weather is bad (I live in MI), however going in to pick up the food myself always leaves me unsure.

I once worked Friday and Saturday nights at a restaraunt packaging all the carry-out orders, where I was paid a whopping $2/hr (it was quite a while ago). In addition to answering phones, taking orders, packaging them and getting them to the cashier before the customer arrived, I had to make up all the different sizes of sauce cups, noodles, cookies etc., that would be needed to carry the restaraunt through to my next Friday shift. Oh - I also had to help the waitstaff get their sides plated if they were really busy, and if the hostess / cahsier was busy I had to fill in seating people. This restaraunt did not pratice tip-outs to my knowledge, so in my two years if there were ever any tips left I never saw a dime of them. It would have made my day if someone had given me one - no matter how small - and that&#039;s the main reason I tip for in-store carry-out service. But I&#039;ll never know who actually deserves or gets that money!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the subject of tipping: what about all the restaraunts with &#8220;curbside&#8221; carry-out service? I always give the &#8220;server&#8221; some kind of tip, but I&#8217;m never sure what the appropriate % is. There is also the difference between places where they bring the order out to your car vs those where you go in to pick it up.</p>
<p>I generally tip more if I never have to leave my car &#8211; especially when the weather is bad (I live in MI), however going in to pick up the food myself always leaves me unsure.</p>
<p>I once worked Friday and Saturday nights at a restaraunt packaging all the carry-out orders, where I was paid a whopping $2/hr (it was quite a while ago). In addition to answering phones, taking orders, packaging them and getting them to the cashier before the customer arrived, I had to make up all the different sizes of sauce cups, noodles, cookies etc., that would be needed to carry the restaraunt through to my next Friday shift. Oh &#8211; I also had to help the waitstaff get their sides plated if they were really busy, and if the hostess / cahsier was busy I had to fill in seating people. This restaraunt did not pratice tip-outs to my knowledge, so in my two years if there were ever any tips left I never saw a dime of them. It would have made my day if someone had given me one &#8211; no matter how small &#8211; and that&#8217;s the main reason I tip for in-store carry-out service. But I&#8217;ll never know who actually deserves or gets that money!</p>
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		<title>By: Alysse</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-360099</link>
		<dc:creator>Alysse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-360099</guid>
		<description>I have worked in restaurants for over 6 years, since I was 15 I think; through college and high school. I have hosted, washed dishes, bussed, run food, cocktailed and currently, I serve. For the past year and a half I have worked for the same company in two completely different areas of New York. One location was right out side NYC, and the other in upstate NY.  One thing I have noticed is LOCATION. (I also waited tables in times square for a few months) In NYC, 20% was average, anything above that was stellar service, anything below that, chances are, you weren&#039;t from the area. At the end of the night, I always look at my avg. tip % for the night, and there, it was a bad night anything less than 20%. 
I moved home, where prices are the same, but a smaller area, obviously less income per capita, and if I average 18% its a great night. 
I have come to the conclusion that its just economy... if I were to go to some diner in the middle of nowhere alabama and tip 20% I bet that would be the highest tip they have gotten all month. Its just ecomomics, I get it. 

I didn&#039;t expect to average 20% when I moved home. My style of service didn&#039;t change, I didn&#039;t become a worse server, if anything I am better because I have not jumped through the restaurant revolving door. Sure I was spoiled, but things also cost less here at home than they did in nyc, I dont spent $5.50 on a gallon of orange juice anymore, ya know?

Oh, and to the guy that had a problem with auto-grat on large parties, next time you take your 5 buddies out to eat, do the math on 18% percent of your bill BEFORE tax... that is how much you are giving your server... which actually works out to be right around 15%. So drop your fit about automatically having to give your server 18% if you don&#039;t think they deserve it.

And one more thing, next time you go out to eat, take a look around and especially on a busy night, notice that you are not the only table in your servers section, chances are they are waiting on at least 3 other tables. And try to further notice the progress of the tables around you, if there is a table on either side of you with only menus on the table, chances are the server just got sat, twice, maybe even three times all at once, and imagine having to go get drinks for 12 people all at once, and lemme tell you those trays are not light... your soda glass without anything in it is a lb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have worked in restaurants for over 6 years, since I was 15 I think; through college and high school. I have hosted, washed dishes, bussed, run food, cocktailed and currently, I serve. For the past year and a half I have worked for the same company in two completely different areas of New York. One location was right out side NYC, and the other in upstate NY.  One thing I have noticed is LOCATION. (I also waited tables in times square for a few months) In NYC, 20% was average, anything above that was stellar service, anything below that, chances are, you weren&#8217;t from the area. At the end of the night, I always look at my avg. tip % for the night, and there, it was a bad night anything less than 20%.<br />
I moved home, where prices are the same, but a smaller area, obviously less income per capita, and if I average 18% its a great night.<br />
I have come to the conclusion that its just economy&#8230; if I were to go to some diner in the middle of nowhere alabama and tip 20% I bet that would be the highest tip they have gotten all month. Its just ecomomics, I get it. </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t expect to average 20% when I moved home. My style of service didn&#8217;t change, I didn&#8217;t become a worse server, if anything I am better because I have not jumped through the restaurant revolving door. Sure I was spoiled, but things also cost less here at home than they did in nyc, I dont spent $5.50 on a gallon of orange juice anymore, ya know?</p>
<p>Oh, and to the guy that had a problem with auto-grat on large parties, next time you take your 5 buddies out to eat, do the math on 18% percent of your bill BEFORE tax&#8230; that is how much you are giving your server&#8230; which actually works out to be right around 15%. So drop your fit about automatically having to give your server 18% if you don&#8217;t think they deserve it.</p>
<p>And one more thing, next time you go out to eat, take a look around and especially on a busy night, notice that you are not the only table in your servers section, chances are they are waiting on at least 3 other tables. And try to further notice the progress of the tables around you, if there is a table on either side of you with only menus on the table, chances are the server just got sat, twice, maybe even three times all at once, and imagine having to go get drinks for 12 people all at once, and lemme tell you those trays are not light&#8230; your soda glass without anything in it is a lb.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-359675</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-359675</guid>
		<description>As a current server here are my opinions:
General tipping- 15-20%(good service)
                 10-15%(mediocre service)
                  5-10%(bad service)
Note: I have made it a personal practice to never tip less than a gallon of gas worth, no matter how small the bill is.  If I can&#039;t afford to tip, I obviously can&#039;t afford to eat out that night.

Yes, where I work currently calculates 3% of my sales and I am required to tip that out every shift I work.  Although I think that other staff should receive their fair share, this allows for a very unsavory thing to occur.  On more than one occasion in just the past year, I have seen a server go home with less than they came in with. Yes, servers are also protected by minimum wage laws, but when someone is counting on what most would consider pocket change to feed their family for one or to more nights, this can be extremely disheartening.

I personally treat every guest of mine with the exact same courtesy and attention(as confirmed by my coworkers and management staff). Yet my tips vary greatly. At least in my case, I tend to therefor believe that tipping is largely due to the guests&#039; moods or preconceived notions about what is proper in this setting.  That is why the debate is mostly about the standards of tipping and not &quot;how bad service in restaurants is lately&quot;.  I&#039;ll let that last comment sink in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a current server here are my opinions:<br />
General tipping- 15-20%(good service)<br />
                 10-15%(mediocre service)<br />
                  5-10%(bad service)<br />
Note: I have made it a personal practice to never tip less than a gallon of gas worth, no matter how small the bill is.  If I can&#8217;t afford to tip, I obviously can&#8217;t afford to eat out that night.</p>
<p>Yes, where I work currently calculates 3% of my sales and I am required to tip that out every shift I work.  Although I think that other staff should receive their fair share, this allows for a very unsavory thing to occur.  On more than one occasion in just the past year, I have seen a server go home with less than they came in with. Yes, servers are also protected by minimum wage laws, but when someone is counting on what most would consider pocket change to feed their family for one or to more nights, this can be extremely disheartening.</p>
<p>I personally treat every guest of mine with the exact same courtesy and attention(as confirmed by my coworkers and management staff). Yet my tips vary greatly. At least in my case, I tend to therefor believe that tipping is largely due to the guests&#8217; moods or preconceived notions about what is proper in this setting.  That is why the debate is mostly about the standards of tipping and not &#8220;how bad service in restaurants is lately&#8221;.  I&#8217;ll let that last comment sink in.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-359651</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-359651</guid>
		<description>Not tipping is horrible, no matter what goes on.  As a former waitress and restaurant manager, I have worked in establishments where you tip out hosts, dishwashers, foodrunners, cooks, etc.  I think this is a case of someone at the Wall Street Journal (or wherever) discovering something and calling it a &quot;new trend&quot; so they have an excuse to make their 4 dollars per word.  And for those of you who don&#039;t tip, you are helping the crappy waitstaff cycle, not hurting it.  If people don&#039;t tip, then why try anyway.  It starts with someone mistaking a slow kitchen for a bad waitress, something which is completely unfair.  Or maybe some jerk sends back food  they ordered saying they didn&#039;t order it to get a free meal and then not tipping to save more money, etc.  Why try right?  It is much more effective to say something while giving that person less than the recommended 20%.  If you see them sitting down or talking to their friends and you&#039;ve needed something for a while, or it&#039;s not too busy and they never appear, then give them 10%, put it in their hand, and tell them why you were unsatisfied.  It is a shame that we live in one of the only places where a large group of the labor force is legally allowed to be payed less than minimum wage.  However, if you aren&#039;t going to be gracious and provide a tip for service, did it occur to you that you can eat at home and not have to tip anyone?  You will have no one to blame for bad or slow food but yourself, and I believe that any waitress or waiter would be more than happy to lose your business.

18% on a table of six or more is mandatory, by the way, often in places where teenagers and college students frequent.  It is a way to protect the waitstaff from kids who order a million things and don&#039;t tip.  Have you ever waited on six peoples every need for two hours?  It&#039;s no fun.  You should be tipping anyway with that kind of demand, who cares if it&#039;s on your bill or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not tipping is horrible, no matter what goes on.  As a former waitress and restaurant manager, I have worked in establishments where you tip out hosts, dishwashers, foodrunners, cooks, etc.  I think this is a case of someone at the Wall Street Journal (or wherever) discovering something and calling it a &#8220;new trend&#8221; so they have an excuse to make their 4 dollars per word.  And for those of you who don&#8217;t tip, you are helping the crappy waitstaff cycle, not hurting it.  If people don&#8217;t tip, then why try anyway.  It starts with someone mistaking a slow kitchen for a bad waitress, something which is completely unfair.  Or maybe some jerk sends back food  they ordered saying they didn&#8217;t order it to get a free meal and then not tipping to save more money, etc.  Why try right?  It is much more effective to say something while giving that person less than the recommended 20%.  If you see them sitting down or talking to their friends and you&#8217;ve needed something for a while, or it&#8217;s not too busy and they never appear, then give them 10%, put it in their hand, and tell them why you were unsatisfied.  It is a shame that we live in one of the only places where a large group of the labor force is legally allowed to be payed less than minimum wage.  However, if you aren&#8217;t going to be gracious and provide a tip for service, did it occur to you that you can eat at home and not have to tip anyone?  You will have no one to blame for bad or slow food but yourself, and I believe that any waitress or waiter would be more than happy to lose your business.</p>
<p>18% on a table of six or more is mandatory, by the way, often in places where teenagers and college students frequent.  It is a way to protect the waitstaff from kids who order a million things and don&#8217;t tip.  Have you ever waited on six peoples every need for two hours?  It&#8217;s no fun.  You should be tipping anyway with that kind of demand, who cares if it&#8217;s on your bill or not?</p>
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		<title>By: GAW</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-358587</link>
		<dc:creator>GAW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-358587</guid>
		<description>I personally don&#039;t understand why they won&#039;t pay wait staff the same minimum wage that everyone else gets. A tip should be just that. It should represent good service and not be something extra that I am paying in order for the person waiting on me to make a living. When I worked in grocery stores as a kid I certainly did not expect that everyone would give me a tip for just pushing out their buggy. I had provided little service to them if I was not the one that bagged everything to their expectations. Why should I have to make up the differnce between minimum wage and what the waitstaff makes hourly? If they don&#039;t give good to excellent service then I don&#039;t leave much if anything. Like I said this should be something above and beyond for that person&#039;s hard work and attentiveness not something that they expect just because they brought me my food and then I didn&#039;t see them again until they brought me my bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally don&#8217;t understand why they won&#8217;t pay wait staff the same minimum wage that everyone else gets. A tip should be just that. It should represent good service and not be something extra that I am paying in order for the person waiting on me to make a living. When I worked in grocery stores as a kid I certainly did not expect that everyone would give me a tip for just pushing out their buggy. I had provided little service to them if I was not the one that bagged everything to their expectations. Why should I have to make up the differnce between minimum wage and what the waitstaff makes hourly? If they don&#8217;t give good to excellent service then I don&#8217;t leave much if anything. Like I said this should be something above and beyond for that person&#8217;s hard work and attentiveness not something that they expect just because they brought me my food and then I didn&#8217;t see them again until they brought me my bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Confused</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-358252</link>
		<dc:creator>Confused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-358252</guid>
		<description>OK, so it&#039;s not a conspiracy.  Agreed.  Here&#039;s the thing, though.  Why 20%?  It was 15% for a long, long time.  Then it became &quot;15 - 20%&quot;.  Now I&#039;m told 20%.  Why?

Food prices increase.  As they do, tabs go up.  Dinner out becomes more and more expensive (just basic economics, I know, but just to make a point...)  When the bill is higher, the server&#039;s tip goes up.  There is no need to increase the percentage.  I don&#039;t see why I should be expected to pay 15% tips when there is no clear reason for the standard to have changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so it&#8217;s not a conspiracy.  Agreed.  Here&#8217;s the thing, though.  Why 20%?  It was 15% for a long, long time.  Then it became &#8220;15 &#8211; 20%&#8221;.  Now I&#8217;m told 20%.  Why?</p>
<p>Food prices increase.  As they do, tabs go up.  Dinner out becomes more and more expensive (just basic economics, I know, but just to make a point&#8230;)  When the bill is higher, the server&#8217;s tip goes up.  There is no need to increase the percentage.  I don&#8217;t see why I should be expected to pay 15% tips when there is no clear reason for the standard to have changed.</p>
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		<title>By: partgypsy</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-358107</link>
		<dc:creator>partgypsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-358107</guid>
		<description>Chris, and others complaining about tipping in full service sit down restaurants.  It&#039;s not a conspiracy, just how it&#039;s done here.  If you have a problem with it don&#039;t go to those restaurants or move to Europe where a tip is not customary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, and others complaining about tipping in full service sit down restaurants.  It&#8217;s not a conspiracy, just how it&#8217;s done here.  If you have a problem with it don&#8217;t go to those restaurants or move to Europe where a tip is not customary.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-357750</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-357750</guid>
		<description>As customers, we need to say &quot;enough&quot;. I tip no more than 15%. If we don&#039;t put our foot down, we&#039;ll be paying a mandatory 35% tip with 10% given to the busboys and the bartenders and 10% into the owner&#039;s pocket. And if you don&#039;t pay over 35% the server will think you&#039;re cheap and complain about his low wage!

The &quot;tip&quot; has become a hidden FEE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As customers, we need to say &#8220;enough&#8221;. I tip no more than 15%. If we don&#8217;t put our foot down, we&#8217;ll be paying a mandatory 35% tip with 10% given to the busboys and the bartenders and 10% into the owner&#8217;s pocket. And if you don&#8217;t pay over 35% the server will think you&#8217;re cheap and complain about his low wage!</p>
<p>The &#8220;tip&#8221; has become a hidden FEE.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Doerfler</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/09/05/rethinking-how-i-tip-restaurant-servers/comment-page-1/#comment-357590</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Doerfler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2812#comment-357590</guid>
		<description>I have worked in many different restaurants, and they all have different versions of this, but some are more exploitive than others.  I have run across other methods for getting the servers to pay for credit card fees, and managers comps, and all sorts of unethical acts.  The bottom line is that the owners and managers know that restaurant workers are typically unorganized, young, or do not really care a whole lot about their job, certainly not enough to rock the boat, so they get taken advantage of.

In NC where I live and a few other states, the servers make slightly more than $2 an hour, and then are still expected to pay out their tips to the bussers, bartenders, and hostesses.  I even worked in a restaurant that split tips with the kitchen as well. 

The restaurant industry is always fighting high employee turnover and employee theft....hmmmm  wonder why?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have worked in many different restaurants, and they all have different versions of this, but some are more exploitive than others.  I have run across other methods for getting the servers to pay for credit card fees, and managers comps, and all sorts of unethical acts.  The bottom line is that the owners and managers know that restaurant workers are typically unorganized, young, or do not really care a whole lot about their job, certainly not enough to rock the boat, so they get taken advantage of.</p>
<p>In NC where I live and a few other states, the servers make slightly more than $2 an hour, and then are still expected to pay out their tips to the bussers, bartenders, and hostesses.  I even worked in a restaurant that split tips with the kitchen as well. </p>
<p>The restaurant industry is always fighting high employee turnover and employee theft&#8230;.hmmmm  wonder why?</p>
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