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	<title>Comments on: Robert Rubin Disappoints Me</title>
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	<description>A personal finance blog dedicated to discussing such topics as budgeting, asset allocation, 401K, IRA, cash flow, insurance, financial planning, portfolio management, and other areas in personal finance.</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/11/29/robert-rubin-disappoints-me/comment-page-1/#comment-402211</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2990#comment-402211</guid>
		<description>Not only is Rubin the guy who encouraged Citi to lever up, he is also the executive who called his Treasury Department friends to pressure the ratings agencies not to degrade Enron.  He used the corporate jet his own personal car.  It&#039;s sad to watch Pandit get thrown to the wolves of Congress, while Rubin laughs from the White House&#039;s economic advisory board.  I&#039;m not the biggest fan of Pandit, but at least he was reasonible for the mess and now he&#039;s being paid $1 a year to clean up Rubin&#039;s mess.

By the way, anyone with a basic stats degree can understand that mortgage defaults are not independent.  It&#039;s naive and incorrect to assume that large banks don&#039;t have multi varient stress test models, but Rubin just ignored the results.

Citi Insider</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only is Rubin the guy who encouraged Citi to lever up, he is also the executive who called his Treasury Department friends to pressure the ratings agencies not to degrade Enron.  He used the corporate jet his own personal car.  It&#8217;s sad to watch Pandit get thrown to the wolves of Congress, while Rubin laughs from the White House&#8217;s economic advisory board.  I&#8217;m not the biggest fan of Pandit, but at least he was reasonible for the mess and now he&#8217;s being paid $1 a year to clean up Rubin&#8217;s mess.</p>
<p>By the way, anyone with a basic stats degree can understand that mortgage defaults are not independent.  It&#8217;s naive and incorrect to assume that large banks don&#8217;t have multi varient stress test models, but Rubin just ignored the results.</p>
<p>Citi Insider</p>
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		<title>By: rubin pham</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/11/29/robert-rubin-disappoints-me/comment-page-1/#comment-384808</link>
		<dc:creator>rubin pham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2990#comment-384808</guid>
		<description>to add salt &amp; pepper to injury, i have the same name as he does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to add salt &amp; pepper to injury, i have the same name as he does.</p>
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		<title>By: rubin pham</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/11/29/robert-rubin-disappoints-me/comment-page-1/#comment-384367</link>
		<dc:creator>rubin pham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2990#comment-384367</guid>
		<description>i used to have a lot of respect for robert rubin.
his unability to manage the risks at citi group indicates to me that he has a lot of short comings.
i too feel disappointed by robert rubin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i used to have a lot of respect for robert rubin.<br />
his unability to manage the risks at citi group indicates to me that he has a lot of short comings.<br />
i too feel disappointed by robert rubin.</p>
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		<title>By: shadox</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/11/29/robert-rubin-disappoints-me/comment-page-1/#comment-383929</link>
		<dc:creator>shadox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 01:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2990#comment-383929</guid>
		<description>Kitty&#039;s comment is superb. The problem was that everyone kept repeating that real estate markets are largely regional and that national price drops are virtually impossible. In fact, I heard a talk by a UCLA economics professor who explained that housing prices are prone to volume cycles rather than price cycles - instead of prices going down, the number of houses sold declines without impacting prices dramatically. This was in 2006. 

Correlation is a bitch... :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kitty&#8217;s comment is superb. The problem was that everyone kept repeating that real estate markets are largely regional and that national price drops are virtually impossible. In fact, I heard a talk by a UCLA economics professor who explained that housing prices are prone to volume cycles rather than price cycles &#8211; instead of prices going down, the number of houses sold declines without impacting prices dramatically. This was in 2006. </p>
<p>Correlation is a bitch&#8230; <img src='http://allfinancialmatters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kitty</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/11/29/robert-rubin-disappoints-me/comment-page-1/#comment-383921</link>
		<dc:creator>Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 00:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2990#comment-383921</guid>
		<description>Equitel, he made a stupid investment decision. The type most of us can make - you invest into a stock or commertial paper that goes up. You think it&#039;ll go up further. Sure he should&#039;ve been smart enough to know better. How many of us were smart enough to sell our stocks last year? We all knew that real estate values start going down. We all knew that there are problems with defaults. It&#039;s easier to look back and say &quot;oh, it was stupid&quot; then to do the smart thing. Now, he obviously had more information than we do, but he didn&#039;t want to lose to his bank&#039;s competitors. It&#039;s like Buffet said in one of his intervies about the internet bubble: you look at your neighbors and they all make money in the stock market. If your neighbor is making a lot money and you (think you) are smarter than your neighbor, then you want to make money too. So everyone invests in the internet stocks ignoring the fact that these companies don&#039;t make money...

I have a friend who works for an investment research company. She is a mathematician and was involved in some of math models for these securities. I asked her how they could&#039;ve thought that mortgage failures were independent events when once real estate prices start dropping defaults lead to more defaults. She said &quot;well, now we know that they are correlated, but at the time everything pointed to them being independent...&quot;. 

Of course as a CEO he should&#039;ve known better, and if you make a stupid decision on the job, you should be accountable for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Equitel, he made a stupid investment decision. The type most of us can make &#8211; you invest into a stock or commertial paper that goes up. You think it&#8217;ll go up further. Sure he should&#8217;ve been smart enough to know better. How many of us were smart enough to sell our stocks last year? We all knew that real estate values start going down. We all knew that there are problems with defaults. It&#8217;s easier to look back and say &#8220;oh, it was stupid&#8221; then to do the smart thing. Now, he obviously had more information than we do, but he didn&#8217;t want to lose to his bank&#8217;s competitors. It&#8217;s like Buffet said in one of his intervies about the internet bubble: you look at your neighbors and they all make money in the stock market. If your neighbor is making a lot money and you (think you) are smarter than your neighbor, then you want to make money too. So everyone invests in the internet stocks ignoring the fact that these companies don&#8217;t make money&#8230;</p>
<p>I have a friend who works for an investment research company. She is a mathematician and was involved in some of math models for these securities. I asked her how they could&#8217;ve thought that mortgage failures were independent events when once real estate prices start dropping defaults lead to more defaults. She said &#8220;well, now we know that they are correlated, but at the time everything pointed to them being independent&#8230;&#8221;. </p>
<p>Of course as a CEO he should&#8217;ve known better, and if you make a stupid decision on the job, you should be accountable for it.</p>
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		<title>By: equitel</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/11/29/robert-rubin-disappoints-me/comment-page-1/#comment-383912</link>
		<dc:creator>equitel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 23:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2990#comment-383912</guid>
		<description>If Rubin isn&#039;t accountable, who is?  P.S.  He&#039;s from the Goldman Sachs cloth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Rubin isn&#8217;t accountable, who is?  P.S.  He&#8217;s from the Goldman Sachs cloth.</p>
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		<title>By: Kitty</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/11/29/robert-rubin-disappoints-me/comment-page-1/#comment-383895</link>
		<dc:creator>Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2990#comment-383895</guid>
		<description>One mistake. SEC made this decision in 2007 not 2006.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One mistake. SEC made this decision in 2007 not 2006.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/11/29/robert-rubin-disappoints-me/comment-page-1/#comment-383880</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 19:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2990#comment-383880</guid>
		<description>Great post! You are right on the money. Kitty offers a great comment. Good stuff folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post! You are right on the money. Kitty offers a great comment. Good stuff folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Kitty</title>
		<link>http://allfinancialmatters.com/2008/11/29/robert-rubin-disappoints-me/comment-page-1/#comment-383875</link>
		<dc:creator>Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 17:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfinancialmatters.com/?p=2990#comment-383875</guid>
		<description>&quot;When you bundle together lots of sub-prime mortgages, there’s a high probability that they will default. &quot;
Actually they used probability theory, they just made one wrong assumption. Their thought was that while the probability of each default is high, the probability of multiple simultaneous defaults was low. According to the probability theory, you determine the probability of multiple independent(!) events occurring simultaneously by multiplying individual probabilities. They thought that if the probability of one default is 20%, the probability of two defaults in a bundle is .2*.2=.04 or only 4%, so the interest on other mortgages will compensate for defaults. Add more mortgages with different risk - and the bundles often included both sub-prime and prime mortgages - and while the risk of at least one default is high, the risk of multiple defaults is low. In theory.

Their problem with this logic was that it only works when each of the events is independent. But under certain conditions - falling real estate market, resetting interest rates - multiple defaults are likely to occur simultaneously. The defaults cause foreclosure that causes further decline in prices that causes more defaults.

Another problem, not related with the model was the SEC decision of 2006 to apply mark-to-market rule to CDOs. This caused greatly inflated value of CDOs (and hence banks&#039; assets) during good times, but it caused the decline in market value of CDOs during bad times. As the value of CDOs declined - often to the point well below the potential value of profits generated by the majority of mortgages that still worked - so did the total value of banks&#039; assets (on paper). Since mark-to-market requires banks to put more money in reserve to compensate for the losses in assets&#039; values, the fear of future losses caused banks to sell CDOs causing further decline in their value even if they&#039;d have preferred to keep them and collect interest on still-working mortgages. As a result, CDOs are now selling at pennies on a dollar even though the vast majorities of mortgages don&#039;t default. Remember, most CDOs don&#039;t contain just sub-prime, there are prime mortgages there as well, but as nobody can trust AAA rating of these securities, all of them are selling for rock-bottom prices. A bank may have a lot of cash, but it has to keep it in reserve because it has to keep certain ratio of assets to loans. It also needs to report declines in resale value of CDOs as &quot;loss&quot; every quarter causing bad earnings reports and decline in confidence. 

Also, there are credit default swaps which act as &quot;insurance&quot; only with no requirement for insurer&#039;s having adequate capital to cover losses. Also, anybody can buy credit default swaps on assets held by any bank so it&#039;s a little like 10 people being able to buy insurance on your house. These 10 people then would profit if something happens to this house, but without fear for the loss of the house. So when a lot of people buy credit default swaps against mortgage-backed securities held by, for example, Citibank, the value of mortgage-backed securities drops as well. This gives lots of ammunition for &quot;bear attacks&quot; on bank stocks - short, buy a lot of default swaps, continue shorting. Something facilitated by another &quot;brilliant&quot; SEC decision made in 2007 - elimination of the uptick rule. Of course, when they try to collect, the insurer may not have the money, so this would cause problems for insurers as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When you bundle together lots of sub-prime mortgages, there’s a high probability that they will default. &#8221;<br />
Actually they used probability theory, they just made one wrong assumption. Their thought was that while the probability of each default is high, the probability of multiple simultaneous defaults was low. According to the probability theory, you determine the probability of multiple independent(!) events occurring simultaneously by multiplying individual probabilities. They thought that if the probability of one default is 20%, the probability of two defaults in a bundle is .2*.2=.04 or only 4%, so the interest on other mortgages will compensate for defaults. Add more mortgages with different risk &#8211; and the bundles often included both sub-prime and prime mortgages &#8211; and while the risk of at least one default is high, the risk of multiple defaults is low. In theory.</p>
<p>Their problem with this logic was that it only works when each of the events is independent. But under certain conditions &#8211; falling real estate market, resetting interest rates &#8211; multiple defaults are likely to occur simultaneously. The defaults cause foreclosure that causes further decline in prices that causes more defaults.</p>
<p>Another problem, not related with the model was the SEC decision of 2006 to apply mark-to-market rule to CDOs. This caused greatly inflated value of CDOs (and hence banks&#8217; assets) during good times, but it caused the decline in market value of CDOs during bad times. As the value of CDOs declined &#8211; often to the point well below the potential value of profits generated by the majority of mortgages that still worked &#8211; so did the total value of banks&#8217; assets (on paper). Since mark-to-market requires banks to put more money in reserve to compensate for the losses in assets&#8217; values, the fear of future losses caused banks to sell CDOs causing further decline in their value even if they&#8217;d have preferred to keep them and collect interest on still-working mortgages. As a result, CDOs are now selling at pennies on a dollar even though the vast majorities of mortgages don&#8217;t default. Remember, most CDOs don&#8217;t contain just sub-prime, there are prime mortgages there as well, but as nobody can trust AAA rating of these securities, all of them are selling for rock-bottom prices. A bank may have a lot of cash, but it has to keep it in reserve because it has to keep certain ratio of assets to loans. It also needs to report declines in resale value of CDOs as &#8220;loss&#8221; every quarter causing bad earnings reports and decline in confidence. </p>
<p>Also, there are credit default swaps which act as &#8220;insurance&#8221; only with no requirement for insurer&#8217;s having adequate capital to cover losses. Also, anybody can buy credit default swaps on assets held by any bank so it&#8217;s a little like 10 people being able to buy insurance on your house. These 10 people then would profit if something happens to this house, but without fear for the loss of the house. So when a lot of people buy credit default swaps against mortgage-backed securities held by, for example, Citibank, the value of mortgage-backed securities drops as well. This gives lots of ammunition for &#8220;bear attacks&#8221; on bank stocks &#8211; short, buy a lot of default swaps, continue shorting. Something facilitated by another &#8220;brilliant&#8221; SEC decision made in 2007 &#8211; elimination of the uptick rule. Of course, when they try to collect, the insurer may not have the money, so this would cause problems for insurers as well.</p>
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